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Author Topic: Phase One / Mamiya DF+ and Schneider 28mm LS  (Read 6681 times)
Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2012, 01:01:51 PM »
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Just got this info

This in from Phase One

Phase One marketing --

1) the 28mm Aspherical is in fact shipping now (the press release had indicated October)

2) the 240 mm lens is shipping Q4
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2012, 01:08:31 PM »
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The shutter can now do 100,000 actuations. Wow. It now matches pretty much every beginner rebel camera. Given that our DF just went to Denmark for repair after the mirror failing on 51,000 actuations this is of course an improvement but in general as pathetic as the DF always has been.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2012, 01:11:07 PM »
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35mm dSLR shutters are about a third the size of a medium format shutter.

Also it's pretty rare for a photographer to (in practice) shoot nearly as many frames on a 645 system as on their 35mm systems.

Still, continued efforts to increase life-span of the shutter is of course welcome.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2012, 02:48:14 PM »
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Hi Doug,

Can you tell me how many elements and groups does the new Schneider 28mm LS lens have?

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2012, 02:52:41 PM »
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We should have a demo unit, sales unit, MTF charts, and lens design specs by next week. I do not have them today.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2012, 03:20:14 PM »
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Hi Doug,

Thank you for getting back to me.

Regards

Simon
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Simon Harper
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pjtn
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« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2012, 09:46:09 PM »
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So is this the all new camera that Phase One has been developing for so many years, or is that still to come?

Is there more announcements to come? I was looking forward to a new Capture One.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2012, 10:26:31 PM »
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35mm dSLR shutters are about a third the size of a medium format shutter.

Also it's pretty rare for a photographer to (in practice) shoot nearly as many frames on a 645 system as on their 35mm systems.

Still, continued efforts to increase life-span of the shutter is of course welcome.

With leaf shutter lenses you have even more reliability issues as both the focal plane shutter and the leaf shutter have to fire correctly.

Twice the failure risk. Something to be considered.
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bcooter
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« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2012, 03:16:46 AM »
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Not much more than a press release level of detail at this point, but we're working to get more specifics and will post them as they come.




A few years ago a friend of mine coined the term Announcekina, which more than summed up what was offered this year.

To me the least offender was Leica as at minimum  "announced" a real upgrade with a  cmos M series with live view and video.    Now in typical Leica form it was short on details, like actual delivery times and does the cmos sensor have an aa filter or is is blurred, what software it runs in etc. etc.?

I wish Leica had "announced" a repair policy that had a time stamp on it, but hey at least they really changed something.

The strangest announcement was Hasselblad with it's "Lunar" concept.  There is nothing new about badging and expanding a (I hate this next word) "brand" to move it to the "I want a luxury camera on my desk" crowd.    Leica has done it, Zeiss does it with lenses, heck everybody does it, though I really can't see astronauts in billion dollar spacecraft carrying designer wood handled tiny cameras into the great unknown, but the mock up doesn't look like it could make it through a fedex shipment, much less the rigors of space.

The Phase/Leaf/Mamiya DF Plus to me wins the prize for best announcement while not breaking into a laugh.  

The Mamiya 645 has always been the plastic little sister of that venerable company and I guess buyers are suppose to upgrade one more time for .002 percent improvement knowing that Mamiya is really going to make a new camera someday.  Maybe Phlem (Phase Leaf Mamiya) are just waiting for the condo market in South Florida to improve, hence the $6,000 cost for a camera only, not including the digital part.   That'll help take the sting out of the lost equity.

To me there are two real winners from Announcekina.  

Rolleiflex or F+H or dhw or whatever the company is called, for upgrading their existing camera and making those upgrades backwards compatible.  Any digital company that sells expensive equipment and for under $500 offers an upgrade deserves a big kiss on the mouth.

Actually the guys that make the Rolleiflex, must be sitting at the corner bar, staring down at their beer and asking, what's wrong with those Phase people?  Why spend money on Mamiya when we're ready to go? "Harvey, I told you we should have worn those Viking hats during the Phase presentation."

I feel for those Rollei guys and don't understand why  Phase/Leaf/Mamiya just doesn't scratch the whole DF thing and throw some cash at that Rollei is beyond me.  What does it really cost to make a few more lenses and a real 90 degree prism compared to making a whole new Mamiya camera that might be presented during the 2016 Announcekina.

It seems Phase jumped onto the wrong highway and just doesn't want to admit to their spouse that they need to turn around.

In reality I guess the real winner of Annoucekina is the present owners of Phase backs, Hasselblad, Contax, Pentax and Rollei Cameras because nothing announced in the last few days, made anything we use obsolete.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 05:35:52 AM by bcooter » Logged
ondebanks
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« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2012, 05:09:37 AM »
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Just noticed an interesting pricing anomaly in the Phase One announcements.

It may be worth buying your P1 gear in Euros - even if you live in dollar-land - because they are working on an exchange rate of 1.396 dollars to the Euro (5990/4290). The actual rate today from the ECB is considerably different, in favour of the dollar - 1.305. So 4290 costs you $5600, not $5990. Commission margins might knock that back to about 1.32, so $5660. What could you do with the $330 you saved?

Ray
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Mr. Rib
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« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2012, 05:57:33 AM »
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Spend it on your import tax I suppose? And then some.
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Jozef Zajaz
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« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2012, 07:11:02 AM »
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http://www.phaseone.com/en/Camera-Systems/Camera-Bodies/645-Specifications.aspx

And the exact diffrence is what? They added a lithium battery and possibility to tweak the af? Sam 3 points as before Sad
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2012, 08:33:08 AM »
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Can you tell me how many elements and groups does the new Schneider 28mm LS lens have?

The Schneider 28mm LS has 14 elements, 10 groups.

Min focus = 35cm
Max Flash Sync: 1/1600th (requires DF or DF+ and recent Phase/Leaf back)
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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TMARK
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« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2012, 08:44:23 AM »
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My Photokina review:

Leica appears to be on a roll.  The M is the solution to my mega bitching about the M-9.  It addresses all of my complaints about the M8 and M9, without crippling the M's core use as a compact rangefinder.  The new M is a useful and versatile camera now, rather than a $7k one trick pony.  I like the M-E too, and while still expensive for a one trick pony, the price is easier to digest.  The silver dials are odd.  

The S is a great system for MFD.  In many ways it is the best of the bunch.  Yes it is WAY over priced, but the files are super duper and the handling is really amazing.  The "updates" seem nice, but these are thing that should be offered as a service to S owners.

The only thing Leica needs to do is get their repair service together.  I had an M8 that had a bad PCB board.  I was told that the issue was "Normal", that the cyan and magenta jagged blocks of pixels around over exposed highlights was not a problem.  I guess if you are taking pics of your kids or using it as a paper weight, sure, but when you have deliverables it is unacceptable.  They were essentially telling me not to send it in.  I did anyway and they fixed it, but it wasn't cheap.

Phase:  DF+?  Yawn.  New 28?  Sure, why not.  Best backs/worst camera, the saga continues.

F&H/Rollei:  A real company with an amazing product, a useful update and UPGRADE for current users.  Where are the cameras in the states?  Support? This is an aspirational camera.  This is what Phase should build as an RZProIIID.  This is the only MF camera that even makes me consider opening my wallet.

Blad:  H5.  OK, fine.  Lunar:  WTF.  It looks like it was designed by a pimp from Dagastan or a 14 year old from a Dade County trailer park.  Makes all of the Royal Wedding alligator forskin special edition Leicas look like Ives design studies in masterful minimalism.  It boggles the mind.

Canon:  6D:  yeah, this is a 5d2 with some missing features.  Its fine.  Confirms that the 5D3 is their pro camera.  You can get a new 5d2 for $400 less than the 6D.

Nikon D600:  looks promising.  If the snesor is anything like the D800 sensor, this camera will be fantastic.

Predictions:  Pentax will blow it up with the 645D2 at their home show in Japan.  Pentax may in fact become the dominant player in the MFD industry if they can add better tethering and keep prices at a reasonable level.  Another prediction:  I will have a Leica M by March, and maybe an M-E if the shutter is silent like an M6, or close to it.

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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2012, 10:13:01 AM »
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35mm dSLR shutters are about a third the size of a medium format shutter.

Also it's pretty rare for a photographer to (in practice) shoot nearly as many frames on a 645 system as on their 35mm systems.

Still, continued efforts to increase life-span of the shutter is of course welcome.

For that price there is no excuse whatsoever. None.
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scott morrish
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« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2012, 10:54:57 AM »
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Hi Doug.

Regarding the new 28mm, couple of questions:
[1] how many blades for the aperture?
and [2] are the edges / corners significantly improved when compared to the older 28mm?

Regards,
Scott
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2012, 11:06:54 AM »
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Regarding the new 28mm, couple of questions:
[1] how many blades for the aperture?
and [2] are the edges / corners significantly improved when compared to the older 28mm?

Hi Scott.

[1] - no idea; not on the spec sheets, but should be able to tell you next week when I have one in my hand.
[2] - I won't repeat their claims, because they don't matter. Only real world results matter, so we will post test files compared to the 28D as soon as we can.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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bcooter
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« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2012, 01:51:50 PM »
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Predictions:  Pentax will blow it up with the 645D2 at their home show in Japan.  Pentax may in fact become the dominant player in the MFD industry if they can add better tethering and keep prices at a reasonable level.  Another prediction:  I will have a Leica M by March, and maybe an M-E if the shutter is silent like an M6, or close to it.




If your a professional that uses equipment to it's fullest forget about  announcekina just look at what's really offered today.

This seems to be the year (or decade) where the camera companies said, to heck with the pros, let's go after the consumers, you know like those guys at Apple.

The Leica's M and S probably are the best bets regardless of price, because they can be cameras you use for a long time.  The issue with Leica is reliability and service and if you own and don't rent, it's a risk to go out without exact backups, in everything so the S system with two bodies and a handful of lenses is right up there with a good S-class Mercedes. 

Like TM I sent a lens into Leica for repair, months later it came back in exactly the same condition.    Mind boggling, considered they charged me for it.

I'm sure there is a better dealer than who I used but burn me once  . . .

Everything else is close to a yawn.   Canon makes another 20 something megapixel black dslr.  OK, thanks, I thought that was covered.

Nikon started shipping D800's months ago so I guess had nothing to really talk about, but since they covered three territories, seasoned pros, advanced amateurs, beginning pros, with one camera,  I don't think they really needed to say much.

Personally, for still cameras, I just want one or two systems that covers more than what's offered. 

We do a lot of traveling to Europe and Asia.  Obviously I don't take everything I use on a plane but as of today we have 52 case of cameras, lenses and lights so even if I take a third of that, every camera case with the airlines overage is getting very expensive, not to mention what it takes to maintain multiple systems.   Now a good part of these 52 cases is from adding motion imagery with the RED's so there's not much I can do about that, but as far as stills I would think at this point in time there is a better way.

My Nikons shoot fast and focus like a laser but I don't like the color and when tethered I don't like that the lcd that blanks out.  My Canons are ok, getting a little long in the tooth, but they really don't get my heart racing.

I rented a 5d3 for a project a month ago and it shot everything well, had better focus than my 1ds3's and my 5d2, but the file was too smooth.  I can't explain what too smooth is but it looked way too digital for me.*

The new Phase backs, I'm sure are great because my backs seem to run and run and never have a glitch, but it's the age old question of what do you put them on?  I know they offer one in a Contax mount but I'm sure the first time I walk into a dealer I'll be told it takes 3 months to get a mount other than a DF and if people like the DF that's great but everytime I've tried that camera in it's many forms, I just shake my head.   

Like TM I also agree Pentax could own the medium format world, for price and for use, but they're so Japanese market centric does anybody know if it tethers and when they're going to fill the holes in the lens line? 

Sony also could be a world beater and seems to innovate with multiple focus systems and a fixed mirror, but once again the Zeiss lenses (which are amazing) are rather scarce and does it tether, does it tether fast can you get CPS type of repair?

Sony just doesn't seem to get traction in the professional still world and I'm a little surprised by that, considering they have the ability to make any sensor, their quality is usually legendary and there must be a billion dealers around the world.

IMO

BC

*Speaking of too smooth, we just picked up a project and the AD, singled out images she liked from our website.  Every image she selected, from fashion, to sports to lifestyle was shot with a non AA filter, CCD camera, from the older DCS 760, to the M8 Leica and my Phase backs.

I've seen client's fixate on different things, but never have someone look at a body of work and spot what was a CCD and what was a cmos.  One comment was she thought those images were from film and I said no, just older cameras.  She said great, they look special, less digital.

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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2012, 03:12:49 PM »
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Hello,

As I suspected the new Schneider has the same 14 elements and 10 groups as the Mamiya/Phase 28mm D lens.

So in reality it is a relabelled D lens with a leaf shutter in it and not a complete redesign optical by Schneider.

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2012, 04:50:52 PM »
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The new Phase backs, I'm sure are great because my backs seem to run and run and never have a glitch, but it's the age old question of what do you put them on?  I know they offer one in a Contax mount but I'm sure the first time I walk into a dealer I'll be told it takes 3 months to get a mount other than a DF and if people like the DF that's great but everytime I've tried that camera in it's many forms, I just shake my head.   

Just as a point of correction the Phase One IQ can be had on 1-2 weeks notice in any of the mounts.

You might have rightly gotten that idea because when they were brand new and had just started shipping they prioritized shipping of the DF systems. Sor of like Nikon's D800E shipped only after the D800 shipped in quantity (at least as I understand it).
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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Phase One IQ250 FAQ
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