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Author Topic: Panasonic GH3: firmware hacks no longer needed?  (Read 14111 times)
BJL
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« on: September 17, 2012, 10:17:30 AM »
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Panasonic has announced the GH3
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/09/17/Panasonic-announces-DMC-GH3-high-end-movie-focused-mirrorless-camera
http://www.eoshd.com/content/9011/the-panasonic-gh3-is-here
and it seems more heavily skewed to video usage than even the previous GH models, with higher bit-rates and the option of ALL-I intra-frame compression (as also offered in the Canon 5D Mk III and 1D X). The sensor is no longer multi-aspect ratio though, which seems strange with its video orientation: the maximum horizontal pixel count is actually less than in the GH2, so there are fewer photosites available for the 16:9 HD video crop.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 10:24:02 AM by BJL » Logged
Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2012, 03:00:50 PM »
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Fascinating that Panny have obviously looked very closely at the hacks that were being done on the GH2 and came up with the GH3 with marketing skewed to a video product!

Whither the AF100 or its successor?

My guess is that the sales numbers of video-only cameras do not support the blistering pace of still/video products.

For any of us video types that have adopted mft, this looks like a real winner.
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2012, 08:29:12 PM »
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According to DPReview it's a bit larger camera (nice) and it'll offer an OEM battery grip (nicer still).  Some nice creative options for still shooters too.  7 frame AEB at up to 1 stop, interval timer for timelapse and a multiple exposure feature (no word on how many exposures).  Full 1080/60p at 72mbps in All-I.  It'll also offer HDMI out to an external recorder but not sure in what form.  It's also got built-in wifi and there's an Android/iOS app for remote wifi control.  Looks like a pretty stout offering from Panny.  All that're needed are price and availability date.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 08:32:21 PM by BobFisher » Logged
deejjjaaaa
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2012, 10:38:21 PM »
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All that're needed are price

USD $1300 body only - preorders accepted by all usual places
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2012, 12:45:20 AM »
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I think the panny image is great but still would not be happy to pipe my sound through a 1/4 jack.

XLR box with interface like the battery grip required IMO

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2012, 06:26:39 AM »
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USD $1300 body only - preorders accepted by all usual places

That's what I heard on pricing too after I posted last  night but was told it wasn't final.  Guess it is.  Good price point for what the camera offers.
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« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 06:33:28 AM »
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I think the panny image is great but still would not be happy to pipe my sound through a 1/4 jack.

XLR box with interface like the battery grip required IMO

S

Some of the external recorders offer XLR connections, don't they? 
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 09:25:46 AM »
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Some of the external recorders offer XLR connections, don't they? 

You mean a box made for the panny - or using double sound or a XLR preamp?

It would be tidy to have an XLR battery grip.

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 09:34:26 AM »
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You mean a box made for the panny - or using double sound or a XLR preamp?

It would be tidy to have an XLR battery grip.

S

How many other SLR-type cameras offer onboard XLR?  I think you're hoping against hope. Grin

No, I was thinking of something like the Ki Pro Mini.  I don't think the Ninja offers XLR connectors but others in the Atomos line might.  Would that work?
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2012, 01:30:02 AM »
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How many other SLR-type cameras offer onboard XLR?  I think you're hoping against hope. Grin


I might be, but I see it another way. How many professional people making video do you see without  XLR microphones.

Thinking this on. I think there is a real hole for panny to do an AF200

The AF100 was well specced SDi connector, ND, XLR, but was a blatant con compared to the price of the GH2, and also released when there were far fewer MFT lenses in the party

I think there is a huge hole for the af100 of today..

S
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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2012, 06:47:17 AM »
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Probably not many in the past.  But that may be changing with the improvements in DSLR video.  Perhaps Chris can chime in with his setup.

What about an external recorder with the XLR connectors like the Ki Pro Mini, though?  Would that work?

What's the concern with the stereo plug connectors?  Sound quality?  Durability?

Maybe an AF200 is coming.  But if it were priced at roughly the same as the AF100, would it not too be a 'blatant con' when the price of the GH3 is considered?  Does availability of M43 lenses make much of a difference when, with an inexpensive adapter, you can use pretty much any lens available?
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2012, 07:08:44 AM »
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1/4 jack for sound in.

in the next couple of weeks we are going up country to do a project.

Small budget. Two blokes, 4 days, maybe four more days edit.

Would we gamble that on a 1/4 jack plug, not really.

And small HDMI for montior out, and no DC in.

That the trouble with DSLRs they can bring, 60p, 120p, 4k, whatever, but if your project is threatened by a $2 connector the camera is a no go.

1DC, wouldnt use it even if you gave it to me for free.

Now Im not clear in the figures but the AF100 should have cost..
$700 (GH2)
$300 (Nd Filter setup)
$10 extra connectivity leads (a few bits from Maplin)
$20 larger ABS plastic box, (about the size of a toaster)

Im sort of joking, but if I remember the AF100 is 4-6 times the cost of a GH2 - 'a blatant con'

S

« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 07:13:53 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2012, 07:53:45 AM »
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You're not answering the questions, Morgan.  You're obfuscating.

What is the issue with the 1/4" stereo connector?  Sound quality?  Durability?  Something else?

WRT the idea of 'professionals' using something other than XLR connectors, a similar argument was made when 35mm film came along.  'No professional would use something less than medium format.'  And when digital came along.  'Digital is for amateurs, it's not up to professional work.'  And it wasn't in the early days but as it has evolved it has now firmly supplanted film.  Just as digital video is beginning to supplant film.

I'm not trying to be difficult.  I'm trying to understand.  And, I'm afraid, that you're not providing sound reasoning; at least that I can understand, for the aversion. 

I think, when the GH2 came out it was more than $700.  But yes, the price point between the two was substantial.  Even at $1300, the price point between the GH3 and the AF100 is substantial. 

$2.27 XLR connector.
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deejjjaaaa
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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2012, 08:10:12 AM »
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I think, when the GH2 came out it was more than $700. 

a little, you were able to buy a genuine new body in Dec 2010/Jan 2011 @ that price... I purchased a new GH2 body from UniquePhoto (www.uniquephoto.com), a reputable seller in NJ, for USD $736 + $10 shipping... and Panasonic was selling even cheaper directly back then.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2012, 08:40:38 AM »
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You're not answering the questions, Morgan.  You're obfuscating.

Im not trying to obfuscate.

Its a question not of quality or sound file, its the general, rough and tumble of doing work with these tools.

Every small lead, junction box, workarounds, add a link to the chain that can break.

In stills my chain is Camera - wizard - wizard - flash.

And dont get me started on broken 1/4 jacks on Pocket Wizards. They are the only weak link in my photography chain and the retarded bastard of a connection is welded onto the mother board so you cant even mend em yourself.

In motion, the chain is longer, bloody long.

lens, adapter (light leak) mic, mic lead, camera, tripod, tripod adapter, ND filter, way of mounting ND filter, way of keeping stray light off ND filter, crappy thin codec, white balance, white balance with lots of ND, IR pollution with lots of ND, monitor, monitor lead, lights that are hot, or the wrong colour, or more expensive than a house. Dust on the sensor, crew reflected in a window, focus motor whining, interference on your lav channels, backlash on your lenses, missed focus, centre only focus check, before you roll, requirement to stay in focus for not 1/250th but 5 minutes, requirment not to wobble the camera not for 1/250th but for five minutes

I mean a cant even remember all of the links in the chain that need to work for you to come back with a usable in focus bit of footage that has audible synched sound attached.. and then ist got to cut, and be coherent and make a story that stands up to an audience that watches TeeVee more than they ... their missus - a harsh audience not of camera nerds, but Joe Public who might or night not engage with my client through my video.

Ive not done too many motion shoots for cash yet, but I have done enough to have climbed a certain wall

.. and I love every moment of the 4d chess you play, but I assure you you need every brain cell on the job and not a wobbly mic lead.

S



 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 09:03:49 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2012, 09:23:23 AM »
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OK, I thought the GH2 was more than that but I'm also thinking more of Canadian pricing and when the GH2 came out the currency exchange wasn't as favourable and there was still a large gap between Canadian and U.S. pricing on camera bodies.

Morgan, OK it's a durability issue.  And yes, I get all of the links and leaks in the chain.  More than one studio strobe sync cable has raised my ire over the years.  Grin
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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2012, 10:26:21 AM »
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...Morgan, OK it's a durability issue.
Absolutely. 1/4 mini jacks are good for iPods and that's about it. They should not have a place anywhere in the production chain.

I have destroyed at least two cameras simply by a swift tug on the cable breaking the attached sound card. Go XLR or go home.

The ideal setup is to have an outboard recorder like the Ki into which both video & audio go. We do not have one. I use the AF100s for recording the sound and let the GH2 use its own crappy little mic for reference. The Zoom H4n provides backup but will drift out-of-sync in a few minutes requiring post audio resync. Neither the GH2 or 3 is an acceptable audio recorder and should only be used for any final audio unless you absolutely have no other choice.
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Christopher Sanderson
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« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2012, 10:46:25 AM »
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I placed a pre-order for the GH3 a couple weeks ago when I got an independent comfirmation (I was under an NDA) on some specs, particularly the frame, & bit, rates. Should be a great little camera, but I'll primarily use it for B-Roll, both motion, & 16x9 stills.

Too bad the rumored focusing peaking, & XLR adapter, seemed have been just that, but it did get started by a very unreputable website, so no surprise there.

The GH cameras have been a great compliment to the AF100, & will remain just that. There's just too many professional features within the AF100 for the GH2 to supplant it. In fact no camera below an F3, with an external recorder, even matches the AF100 capabilities is a typical production environment.

The AF100's sensor is getting a little long in the tooth, & I imagine Panasonic will announce a replacement at NAB, & start delivery near the end of the year, because that's their normal cycle. I've been looking at other cameras, but sub-Scarlet, or F3 (with recorder), they all lack some feature I just need.

The C300, & C100, are both cameras I would have bought into, but they're slomo capabilities are lacking, while the FS700 shutter speed/angeles don't allow 24p in 50 Hz countries without tungstens, & practicals, flickering.

For the typical photographer wanting a simple motion camera the GH could be a good option, especially if sound is not important, or they're willing to use dual sound setups. In our multicam setups we often run sound to only one camera, & let post deal with syncing them via Plural Eyes software.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 11:27:15 AM by Bern Caughey » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2012, 10:51:55 AM »
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The ideal setup is to have an outboard recorder like the Ki into which both video & audio go.

And that's what I was trying to find out.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2012, 11:52:54 AM »
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I think the GH3 and many other DSLRs are fantastic for motion as Broll or hobby cameras, or maybe even making dramatic films which is a softer environment (than my work) and has a sound department.

The GH3 is no doubt one of the best offerings for these uses.

I have an Fs100 with onboard sound and a sensor size that matches my lenses - it also has various quirks and half the bit rate of the GH3, which will doubtless have a stronger image.

Its also a strange shape (the FS)

Given that lot the GH3 could contend to replace it (im nuts about small cameras) but without better connections cannot.

As for recorders Ive not gone down that road with my allergy to cables even if I could get a few more MBPS,

I have a sound devices sound recorder and it is stellar, I would suggest the PIX240 would be the prefect recorder in the lower but usable class, also offering fantastic audio and full timecode and edit ready formats.

I wish that would be hooked up solidly (SDi) with a GH3, D4 or whatever

At that point one could build a professional package using these great little cameras, upgrade them at will and also use them naked for simpler projects.

This would be great, but no $5 connection !

I think that the makers feel a need to somehow protect their high end sales by ommission of such components

In reality for me at least they just ensure I will avoid their products

Id love an Sdi D4 or Sdi GH3 and Pix 240 - it would a be great upgrade from my FS100 - and the camera head would not be bogged down with XLR

Would I go to work with a cheapee recorder fed by HDMI? No. Maybe thats just irrational, but I feel not.

IMO

S


« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 12:07:58 PM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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