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Author Topic: New Leica S  (Read 4273 times)
hasselbladfan
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« on: September 17, 2012, 02:30:29 PM »
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http://www.s.leica-camera.com/en/System/THE-NEW-LEICA-S
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hasselbladfan
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2012, 02:35:42 PM »
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The synthesis of optimum imaging quality, perfect handling and outstanding speed

Solms, Germany (September 17, 2012) - Leica Camera presents a new camera in the Leica S-System portfolio, a revolutionary digital camera concept to meet supreme professional requirements. The next generation in the successful line, the Leica S offers increased imaging quality and sensor sensitivity, predictive autofocus, higher speed and improved handling. Numerous enhanced functions contribute to the camera’s further acceleration and greater security of the professional photographic workflow. In addition to the new camera body, three lenses have been added to the S-System portfolio, significantly expanding the capabilities of the system: the Leica Super-Elmar-S 24 mm f/3.5 ASPH. super-wide, the Leica Vario-Elmar-S 30-90 mm f/3.5-5.6 ASPH. and the Leica TS-APO-Elmar-S 120 mm f/5.6 ASPH. tilt/shift lens.

“This expansion of the system is further confirmation that the dedicated digital concept of the S-System sets new standards in the world of medium format photography while providing the speed and handling of a 35 mm SLR,” said Stephan Schulz, Head of Professional Imaging at Leica Camera AG. “In terms of its rugged resilience, reliability and versatility, the new Leica S is the first choice for photographers who refuse to make compromises.”

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kers
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2012, 02:59:59 PM »
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if i understand well they have decided to name the cameras M and S to indicate they start from scratch again- a new era of Leica M and S.
In the case of the leica-M it is logical- the CMOS-sensor makes live view possible and high iso values etc.. In the case of S nothing really has changed- the same CCD-sensor as the S2?
Anyway the same 5000 x7500 density where the M has 24MP 6000x4000 and has CMOS and liveview.
If The S would have had a 50+MP CMOS sensor that would have been special... and a new fresh start.
Then they call the M9 from now on M-E (making the just launched MM relatively even more expensive...)
...
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Pieter Kers
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2012, 03:02:23 PM »
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Seriously underwhelming press releases so far from Leica, Hasselblad and Phase One.  Hopefully it changes tomorrow?
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Rune Werner Molnes
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2012, 03:06:11 PM »
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The new S- camera does not have live view, no surprise there since they have more or less the same CCD- sensor in there.

Really disappointed over this, since I have been waiting for this announcement for about half a year now after getting a very reliable tip about a forthcoming new S- camera.

If it had live view I would sell my current gear and invest in the S- system.

Also, the new T/S lens makes no sense without proper live view.

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FredBGG
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2012, 03:13:38 PM »
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Also, the new T/S lens makes no sense without proper live view.



I could not agree more.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2012, 03:15:41 PM »
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LEMO usb connector is a nice touch.

Professional cable for a professional camera.
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BJL
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2012, 05:55:58 PM »
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if i understand well they have decided to name the cameras M and S to indicate they start from scratch again- a new era of Leica M and S.
From the Leica press release that I linked elsewhere:
Quote
The Leica M also marks the beginning of a new era in the Leica product naming policy. In future, Leica M and S model names will omit the number suffix to emphasize the enduring and long-term significance of the respective systems.
Blatantly copying Apple's new iPad naming policy!
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 05:57:34 PM by BJL » Logged
jduncan
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2012, 08:35:08 PM »
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Seriously underwhelming press releases so far from Leica, Hasselblad and Phase One.  Hopefully it changes tomorrow?


I am not sure about that.  I believe that they did what they could, the exception seems to be Hasselblad.
In the case of Leica they improved every single  relevant item in the camera,  minus sensor resolution or technology.
Developing a new sensor is incredible expensive. More so, if it's bigger than the "standard sizes".

The Leica S has a custom sized chip.  Now there is the issue of price. With the D800, Canon 5F III and now D600  the price seems like madness, but some people will pay for Leica glass, ethos  and color separation.

Phase One focus in new lenses, new autofocus system and new battery. They address all the main objections of the users. We need to see the quality of the work in real life, but they did address  the critiques.

Finally is Hasselblad. They invested in the camera. Seems that it's a good update, but no sensor and not new price structure.

That means Hasselblad seems to be stuck with older sensors. The H5D needs to be a magnificent camera to avoid cannibalization by Phase one.

With Phase one and Dalsa been a team Leica, Pentax and Hasselblad should search a new sensor partner (maybe together?) that way they will overcome  PhaseOne block on high end Dalsa sensors.


Let see what is coming tomorrow, besides the details of the H5D


Best regards,
James

 
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hasselbladfan
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2012, 12:48:55 AM »
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Improving aal aspects of the camera is great, but only for new buyers. Nobody will upgrade unless the sensor improves.
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design_freak
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2012, 02:12:20 AM »
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Adding more MP is not the only way to improve ...

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Best regards,
DF

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Rune Werner Molnes
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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2012, 03:09:25 AM »
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That is true only if more pixels translates to better overall image quality and better looking prints. IMO Live view, DR and low noise is more important.
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Hulyss
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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2012, 05:11:15 AM »
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When I got the DP2m and looked at the photos it produce, especially printed (!), I seen my S2 as an extraterrestrial thing in my hands. When I shoot a model and do pp work on her, with the DP2m files, I wonder why on hearth I spend 22200 € on the Panaleica S2. The S2 is now Sold, aiming to re-buy a SD1 (sold my previous one because lack of good lenses).

Sigma just upgraded the whole factory process and start to (I trust them) playing big. They now test all lenses on a new test bench using the SD1 sensor, one of the most hard to resolve sensor out there.

I know S2 is not aimed to compete with a fixed lens on a compact. But if the new lense line up is in par with the SD1 ... it can be sad for other brands.
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ondebanks
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« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2012, 06:26:15 AM »
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I am not sure about that.  I believe that they did what they could, the exception seems to be Hasselblad.

I don't think that's fair on Hasselblad. They've done as much (i.e. as disappointingly little) as everyone else in this round.

In the case of Leica they improved every single  relevant item in the camera,  minus sensor resolution or technology.

The new S looks very nice. But one thing wasn't addressed in the press release: have they removed the stupid, absolutely unjustifiable limitation on long exposure times? That was the S2's biggest flaw, IMO. (Other than price, hah!)

Phase One focus in new lenses, new autofocus system and new battery. They address all the main objections of the users. We need to see the quality of the work in real life, but they did address  the critiques.

They addressed all the main objections? Well...no, far from it. I just posted a partial list of the things they DIDN'T do in the DF+ thread

That means Hasselblad seems to be stuck with older sensors. The H5D needs to be a magnificent camera to avoid cannibalization by Phase one.

With Phase one and Dalsa been a team Leica, Pentax and Hasselblad should search a new sensor partner (maybe together?) that way they will overcome  PhaseOne block on high end Dalsa sensors.

The H4D60 uses a Dalsa 60MP sensor.

Personally I prefer a Kodak sensor anyway...in the continuing absence of MF-sized CMOS!

Ray

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ondebanks
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« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2012, 07:10:50 AM »
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OK - found it in the full press release that Guy posted on getDPI:

"time exposure (B mode): up to max. 125 s"

...so, Leica still don't trust photographers to judge their own boundaries concerning art and quality.  Embarrassed

Ray
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Nick Rains
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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2012, 04:50:35 AM »
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OK - found it in the full press release that Guy posted on getDPI:
"time exposure (B mode): up to max. 125 s"
...so, Leica still don't trust photographers to judge their own boundaries concerning art and quality.  Embarrassed
Ray

I had this exact discussion with Stephan Schulz, head of S-System development, last week at Photokina. It's also something I raised with him last year at a factory visit. I know he totally gets what we are on about, but why nothing has happened, I don't know. There was talk of having a 'pro' firmware option but nothing has been seen of this idea.

BTW, the max time exposure decreases as you go up the ISO. ISO100 = 125 seconds, ISO200 = 60 seconds. Vey limiting and the only thing I don't like about the camera. But I can live with it, and the other goodness is very good indeed.
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ondebanks
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« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2012, 08:07:16 AM »
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I had this exact discussion with Stephan Schulz, head of S-System development, last week at Photokina. It's also something I raised with him last year at a factory visit. I know he totally gets what we are on about, but why nothing has happened, I don't know. There was talk of having a 'pro' firmware option but nothing has been seen of this idea.

BTW, the max time exposure decreases as you go up the ISO. ISO100 = 125 seconds, ISO200 = 60 seconds. Vey limiting and the only thing I don't like about the camera. But I can live with it, and the other goodness is very good indeed.

Glad to see that you were raising this with him, Nick. It strikes me as a cultural problem at Leica rather than an engineering one. They're afraid to give their customers freedom to experiment.

"Mr. Gorbachev - tear down this exposure limit!"

Ray
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2012, 11:27:53 PM »
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Glad to see that you were raising this with him, Nick. It strikes me as a cultural problem at Leica rather than an engineering one. They're afraid to give their customers freedom to experiment.

I think that they are afraid to see in the wild sample images shot at 10 minutes exposure with very high levels of noise in them.

Just like Japanese companies, they also probably believe that it is their responsibility to guide the photographer so that he stays within the preferred  flight envelope of the solution. Indeed, think of all the S owners who have not read this thread and will call up Leica support complaining about the said levels of noise...

There is no simple way to control that.

Cheers,
Bernard
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paul_jones
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2012, 11:12:04 PM »
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i dont know a think about the leica s, but its a very interesting camera. its certainly a good looking camera.

can anyone tell me- have you got the option for a separate focus button with this? (like a af on the back of a canon, or con tax). i cannot use the shutter button for focus- its a very painful way to shoot that forces you to reframe every time you take a shot.

and is there a professional way to tether?  this is a prerequisite for any camera to be considered for advertising work imo.

cheers paul




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ondebanks
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2012, 03:25:03 AM »
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I think that they are afraid to see in the wild sample images shot at 10 minutes exposure with very high levels of noise in them.

Just like Japanese companies, they also probably believe that it is their responsibility to guide the photographer so that he stays within the preferred  flight envelope of the solution. Indeed, think of all the S owners who have not read this thread and will call up Leica support complaining about the said levels of noise...

There is no simple way to control that.

Cheers,
Bernard


I agree that this fear must be the reason, Bernard.

But there's a world of difference between "guide the photographer" and "tie the hands of the photographer". I can choose not to follow guidance. With the Leica S, there is no choice given.

I can't see how it would harm the brand to permit longer exposures, but at the same time place recommendations that photographers stick to the current limit into their user manual, website, etc. That's how things are done by other manufacturers - clear forewarnings along the lines of "this can be done, but we don't recommend it, for the following reason...". I'm thinking of Canon's recommendation not to use Live View for very long periods, for example - they warn, but they don't prohibit.

Ray
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