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Author Topic: Problem getting Sinar 54H+P2+Sinarcam2 to work  (Read 2514 times)
Basse Walid
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« on: September 26, 2012, 06:55:51 PM »
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Hi there,
I have recently bought Sinar camera consisting of Sinar digital back 54H and the Sinar P2 together with Sinarcam2 and DB mounted lenses.
The photographer who owned the equipment before me used powermac G5 with older sinar software. I got the mac newly formatted with OS 10.4.
The latest Sinar captureshop didnt even install. I have now changed to "MBP early 2011" and suceeded with the installation of the program. But I still cant get the camera to work. I have managed to get the back to capture but the Sinarcam2 is not responding. I guess its a software issue.

Connections as following,
digital back > firewire 400 cable > adapter firewire 400 to 800
Cable between the Sinarcam2 and the digital back
Sinarcam2 > special cable to the databox > serial cable > adapter > usb in the MBP

In the Captureshop 6.1.1 I can choose the hardware setup. The digital back is automatically detected.
The camera I have to choose manually, If I choose Sinar 4x5 and sinarcam2, then the camera doesnt respond and I cant capture anything.
There are other alternatives like Sinar p3, Sinar Hy6, Sinar M and other brands. but nothing is right here.

Any suggestion?

I cant find the older version of the sinar software anywhere.
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D Semick
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2012, 07:26:45 PM »
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Have you installed the serial/usb drivers?

I recommend that you call me tomorrow morning. Let's see if we can get you up and running.

Denny
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Denny Semick
Dodd Camera - Professional Imaging Division
Phase One |  Leaf  | Sinar  | Hasselblad | ALPA
dsemick@doddcamera.com  p.216-361-6805
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PdF
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2012, 04:26:20 AM »
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What kind of power supply do you have ? With a serial port (who needs Keyspan usb adapter), or with a direct usb port ?

PdF
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PdF
Basse Walid
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2012, 05:00:24 AM »
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Thanks for quick answer Smiley

I didnt install the serial/usb driver. I have no driver/cd with the power supply.

This is the PS, http://www.samys.com/p/Cables-and-Connectors---Digital-Backs/976206/Sinarback-Power-Supply-RS-232-for-Sinarcam-2/27767.html

RS-232 > Keyspan twin serial (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415fG5SUynL.jpg) into usb port.

The sinarcam2 has been responding sometimes by rotating the outer lens cover.

I was even able to capture pcitures with the back, totally black, assuming no communication between the back and Scam2
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Basse Walid
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2012, 05:09:00 AM »
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I would really appreciate that. I will try to call you around 10.

Have you installed the serial/usb drivers?

I recommend that you call me tomorrow morning. Let's see if we can get you up and running.

Denny
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D Semick
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2012, 08:42:21 AM »
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Try this....

Download the correct driver here:
http://www.tripplite.com/en/support/downloads/index.cfm?txtObjType=9&txtObjSubType=31&P_Line=&S_Type=

Be sure you have selected the SinarCam2 in the hardware set up section. This is not in the preferences box, it is under "Captureshop" of the apple menu. ( silly place, I know)

Here is a diagram of the set up. Verify you have everything connected correctly. Please note that you will have the serial adapter in the mix. Also, this diagram was for the FO version, you have the FW version of the back.

Denny

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Denny Semick
Dodd Camera - Professional Imaging Division
Phase One |  Leaf  | Sinar  | Hasselblad | ALPA
dsemick@doddcamera.com  p.216-361-6805
http://www.doddpro.com
Basse Walid
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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2012, 11:09:21 AM »
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Thanks a lot. The camera has been working since I installed the keyspan software.
I have to admit that this rigg is the most advanced I have ever had to deal with.
Im still having some issues, hope you guys can just give me some advice or maybe links where I can find more information regarding this.

1- Getting black referens can be done automatically or manually. I do this automatically everytime the camera starts. Is it just about saving the values and loading them each time I use the camera? Is there any default?

2- There is a strong green cast. Any suggestion why?

3- The flash ( Bron grafit) is connected to the power supply of the Sinarcam2. It triggers but no effect on pictures

4- Why the shortest shutter speed is just 1/8sec?

cheers
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D Semick
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2012, 02:01:58 PM »
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Thanks a lot. The camera has been working since I installed the keyspan software.
I have to admit that this rigg is the most advanced I have ever had to deal with.
Im still having some issues, hope you guys can just give me some advice or maybe links where I can find more information regarding this.

1- Getting black referens can be done automatically or manually. I do this automatically everytime the camera starts. Is it just about saving the values and loading them each time I use the camera? Is there any default?

2- There is a strong green cast. Any suggestion why?

3- The flash ( Bron grafit) is connected to the power supply of the Sinarcam2. It triggers but no effect on pictures

4- Why the shortest shutter speed is just 1/8sec?

cheers

1- These systems always do that. It will also get a new black reference if you change the shutter speed.

2- It sounds like you haven't neutralized the image. Choose the eye dropper tool and option click a gray patch on a card. this will load a new neutral reference into the software. I believe you can also get the neutral picker if you click and hold on the image with the newer software.

3- There are two pc terminals on the box. It sounds like you are plugged into the incorrect one.

4- Because the shutter "slowly" has to make a pass across the sensor, it just takes some time.


We have a pretty large install base of Sinar P3 systems. The 54H is an awesome back. If you do a 4-shot capture on any kind of fabric or fur, you will see absolutely no moire at all.

Let me know how it goes!

Denny
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Denny Semick
Dodd Camera - Professional Imaging Division
Phase One |  Leaf  | Sinar  | Hasselblad | ALPA
dsemick@doddcamera.com  p.216-361-6805
http://www.doddpro.com
Basse Walid
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« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2012, 10:04:29 AM »
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Thanks Denny!
Everything is working now. Im really pleased with the camera and totaly surprised over the quality and details in pictures.

The eye dropper tool was on "info mode" I didnt find the neutral dropper in the begining. Now it works as it should.

I hoped that I could get 1/30 sec shutter speed. I have to get used to cut of all ambient light and pre-focusing Smiley
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D Semick
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« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2012, 10:17:18 AM »
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Excellent!

If there is anything else I can do, please let me know.

Denny
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Denny Semick
Dodd Camera - Professional Imaging Division
Phase One |  Leaf  | Sinar  | Hasselblad | ALPA
dsemick@doddcamera.com  p.216-361-6805
http://www.doddpro.com
edwinb
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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2012, 01:13:25 PM »
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well done!
I thought it might help other readers also with this configuration to mention the cable from cameraback to sinarcam2 comes in 2 forms:-
the older cable connects physically but can cause some erratic behaviors because of power supply connections between the firewire and the sinarcam2 psu
the solution was to fit a 2nd serial 'breaker cable' 552.11.163 or replace the cable with the current 'new' model 552.11.164

Its also worth to check setting of adaptive compensation for magenta > green shift (normally set on in this configuration)

The white reference and hardware antimoire features are unusual and well worth exploring.

Edwin
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Edwin Blenkinsopp
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Basse Walid
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« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2012, 05:08:40 PM »
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I have been working with the camera the past days and I have some issues that I have to solve

1- Focusing through Live view is not really accurate. Or it just might be that Im not really used to it. Im considering focusing screen but it doesnt seem to be a good idea to remove the back each time I want to focus. Is the sliding adapter 100 ( Sinar 551.32.093) the only way around this? 

2- I lack the cd/dvd with white referense. Should I try to get one or just leave it the way it is?

3- Changing lenses or when changing to 120mm with macro bellow means that the sensor is exposed to particles etc. I dont really feel like I want to do this often. Is there any way to protect the sensor while exchanging the lens?

Many thanks!
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Basse Walid
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2012, 05:16:11 PM »
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Edwin,
Can you please explain more about the breaker cable?
The firewire back is connected with the Sinarcam2 with a special cable that fits only in one way.
I would be very glad if you had a picture of the breaker cabe.

(Its also worth to check setting of adaptive compensation for magenta > green shift (normally set on in this configuration) How to?
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D Semick
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2012, 07:03:22 AM »
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1- Be sure you have the lens open all the way and have enough light on the set. Enable "focus mode" in live view and move the box around to the desired area. It does take a little while to get use to. You can adjust the brightness/contrast sliders to tune the image a little bit.

2-You can create your own white reference. The software will wok you through the steps by going to Cature>Get White Reference in the menu.
You can also have Sinar create one for you, for a feee,  and they will map out any errors with the CD as well.

3- Not really.
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Denny Semick
Dodd Camera - Professional Imaging Division
Phase One |  Leaf  | Sinar  | Hasselblad | ALPA
dsemick@doddcamera.com  p.216-361-6805
http://www.doddpro.com
edwinb
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2012, 04:22:44 PM »
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Edwin,
Can you please explain more about the breaker cable?
The firewire back is connected with the Sinarcam2 with a special cable that fits only in one way.
I would be very glad if you had a picture of the breaker cabe.

(Its also worth to check setting of adaptive compensation for magenta > green shift (normally set on in this configuration) How to?

1) sorry no images to hand, breaker cable type 1 has a rectangular box with female connector that fits to cable connecting to sinarcam2, the other end has a matching mae connector
breaker cable type 2 looks the same as the original cable sinarcam2-cameraback but with different part number

2) its in the colour alchemist settings above the slider for neutralising the highlights.

Edwin
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Edwin Blenkinsopp
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image2output
m:  +44 (0) 7836 674749
e: edwin.blenkinsopp@image2output.com
w: Sinar | Foba | Inkjet
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