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Author Topic: Mitt Romney's halo  (Read 69605 times)
deejjjaaaa
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« Reply #60 on: October 04, 2012, 11:06:19 AM »
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I'm not from the US ... I can say with confidence that it was not a bit like the US of A.
hmmm... how do you know ? I know for example because I have two passports - one red and one blue... so I can compare because I actually live/lived and not as a tourist.
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Fips
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« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2012, 11:13:50 AM »
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I only have one passport to boast but I used to live in the US for a while and go there occasionally. But I must admit that I haven't been to all 50 states. Maybe I just missed the socialistic ones so far.
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RSL
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« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2012, 11:20:13 AM »
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Well ... unemployment peaked in October 2009 and has been falling since ... not sure what you think that shows.

Right, and it got all the way down to about 8.3%. But the only reason it got even that far down is because a huge number of people gave up and dropped out of the employment picture. At the moment the real unemployment figure, taking into account the people who've given up, is in the middle teens, and it's in the middle twenties for minorities and the young.

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It did rise during the course of 2009, but that can't be blamed on the brand new administration.

Well, that's certainly what the "brand new administration" would like you to believe.

At this point I'm outa here. I'll leave the discussions on the US political situation to the Europeans and to Jeremy who's thoroughly absorbed the US mainstream media propaganda. Last night's "debate" sort of clinched things.
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Bryan Conner
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« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2012, 11:50:08 AM »
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Well ... unemployment peaked in October 2009 and has been falling since ... not sure what you think that shows.

It did rise during the course of 2009, but that can't be blamed on the brand new administration.



I guess my point is that the last time unemployment was at the level it is now was in February 2009, yes one month after Pres. Obama took office, and yes, that was the fault of President Bush and the congress at the time (Democratic led Congress mind you).  The last time before Feb 2009 that the rate was that high was in January 1984.  President Obama has not been able to lead America out of this situation after 3.5 years of leadership.  I do not think that after 3.5 years of leading the country, and the unemployment rate is just now dropping back down to where it started, can this be deemed a success.  Things have been worse the last 3.5 years concerning unemployment.  Like RSL mentioned, part of the reason that the number is lower now is because the number reflects only those that are actively searching for a job.  The ones that have given up the search are not included!  It is really sad now. 

President Obama has not been able to lead Congress to make the correct decisions in order for America to recover in 3.5 years.  He had his chance.  I think it is time for someone else to try.  I do not like Romney, but maybe he can make an improvement.  Maybe he can be a leader that can lead Congress in the right direction as far as the economy is concerned.  After all, the President can not spend a dime without Congress's approval.
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jeremypayne
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« Reply #64 on: October 04, 2012, 11:59:17 AM »
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Jeremy who's thoroughly absorbed the US mainstream media propaganda.

Dude ... you got that backwards ... all you do is repeat talking points from the Republicans.

My views are FAAAR from the mainstream.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 01:13:09 PM by Jeremy Payne » Logged
Chairman Bill
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« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2012, 12:08:00 PM »
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... Maybe I just missed the socialistic ones so far.

If I remember right, Vermont has an avowedly socialist governor
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2012, 12:20:50 PM »
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... the US mainstream media propaganda...

I am confused here. The "mainstream media" is often portrayed as liberal, "liking Obama," left-leaning, etc. Isn't, however, the Fox News actually the most popular one, so much so that:

- Fox News has the 10 most viewed cable TV news shows (as of Dec 2009).

- Fox News mean prime-time viewing figures are triple that of MSNBC, and double that of CNN, and exceed the total ratings of CNN, MSNBC and CNBC combined.

- In 2006, more than half the people watching cable news were watching Fox News


If anything, it looks like that if the American people are exposed to propaganda, it would be the right-wing one, no? Or, perhaps, because they are "fair and balanced," they can not be considered right-wing?
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deejjjaaaa
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« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2012, 12:30:29 PM »
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I only have one passport to boast but I used to live in the US for a while and go there occasionally. But I must admit that I haven't been to all 50 states. Maybe I just missed the socialistic ones so far.

that is the point - you are not actually even a permanent resident, you were a temp visitor at best on some non immigrant visa, so as we say - do not mix tourism and immigration.
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Fips
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« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2012, 01:01:05 PM »
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that is the point - you are not actually even a permanent resident, you were a temp visitor at best on some non immigrant visa, so as we say - do not mix tourism and immigration.

I wasn't there as a tourist, but I guess that doesn't really matter as you don't seem to be interested in discussing the point I was trying to make anyhow. I'm out.
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Bryan Conner
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« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2012, 01:36:58 PM »
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I am confused here. The "mainstream media" is often portrayed as liberal, "liking Obama," left-leaning, etc. Isn't, however, the Fox News actually the most popular one, so much so that:

- Fox News has the 10 most viewed cable TV news shows (as of Dec 2009).

- Fox News mean prime-time viewing figures are triple that of MSNBC, and double that of CNN, and exceed the total ratings of CNN, MSNBC and CNBC combined.

- In 2006, more than half the people watching cable news were watching Fox News


If anything, it looks like that if the American people are exposed to propaganda, it would be the right-wing one, no? Or, perhaps, because they are "fair and balanced," they can not be considered right-wing?

You are not including the 3 big networks; CBS, NBC, and ABC.  I do not know what the current numbers are, but I found the numbers for the first half of 2011 on http://www.thewrap.com/tv/article/ratings-network-news-cnn-msnbc-gain-viewers-fox-still-solid-no-1-slips-28657

These numbers are of viewers of newscasts.

Year-to-Date 2011 (Compared to first same period in 2010)

Primetime | Total Viewers
1. Fox 2,210,000 (down 13 percent)
2. MSNBC 945,000 (up 8 percent)
3. CNN 768,000 (up 13 percent)
4. HLN 456,000 (down 8 percent)

Network Newscasts | Total Viewers
1. NBC 9,168,000 (up 4 percent)
2. ABC 8,140,000 (up 7 percent)
3. CBS 5,988,000 (up 3 percent)

The total of cable news viewers combined was less than the viewers of just CBS.  So, given the fact that most cable systems also offer the three broadcast networks to the viewers, it is easy to see how the FoxNews numbers are pretty insignificant.  Most people do not watch only cable news.



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Chairman Bill
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« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2012, 03:10:54 PM »
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You do realise that from a European perspective, the US 'liberal left' is our centre right (at best), and your right wing is our fascistic right. The Tea Party are just barking mad. When we hear Obama referred to as a socialist, socialists just laugh - they simply wouldn't vote for someone so right-wing.

Oh, and zuchinnis are courgettes, except in Italy, basil isn't pronounced bay-zil, and oregano isn't pronounced or-egg-an-o. Just saying.  Wink
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WalterEG
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« Reply #71 on: October 04, 2012, 05:03:15 PM »
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Oh, and zuchinnis are courgettes, except in Italy, basil isn't pronounced bay-zil, and oregano isn't pronounced or-egg-an-o. Just saying.  Wink

Hi Bill,

I am somewhat grieved that the lusciously smoky aubergine did not get a run in your linguistic list.

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Bryan Conner
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« Reply #72 on: October 04, 2012, 11:46:26 PM »
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You do realise that from a European perspective, the US 'liberal left' is our centre right (at best), and your right wing is our fascistic right. The Tea Party are just barking mad. When we hear Obama referred to as a socialist, socialists just laugh - they simply wouldn't vote for someone so right-wing.

Oh, and zuchinnis are courgettes, except in Italy, basil isn't pronounced bay-zil, and oregano isn't pronounced or-egg-an-o. Just saying.  Wink

I agree.  Being an American and living here in Germany for almost 3 years now, I am amazed at how America looks from the outside looking in.  I blame a lot of this on the American media.  When I was living there (for 44 years), I think I became so wrapped up in the 24 hour bombardment of news and political opinions that it was very easy to overlook the silliness of the divisiveness. The government and things about the government are so "in your face" in America when compared to here.  The feeling of relaxation here is very refreshing.  I think the difference is in the media.  I do not see such a strong opinion from the German media being pushed so strongly on the people.
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Chairman Bill
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« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2012, 02:48:56 AM »
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Hi Bill,

I am somewhat grieved that the lusciously smoky aubergine did not get a run in your linguistic list.

Doesn't look anything like an egg, does it?
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stamper
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« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2012, 03:15:10 AM »
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Quote Rob

Stamper, you live in a dream.

Unquote

Rob the next time you are out for lunch - a lot of people can't afford it - just think about how the nightmare you support has brought the economic world to it's knees and yet you want the same nightmare to try and repair it? There wasn't one socialist, communist or left leaning person who caused the nightmare. The entrepreneurs you worship must take ALL of the blame. Cry
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Rob C
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« Reply #75 on: October 05, 2012, 04:29:38 AM »
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Quote Rob

Stamper, you live in a dream.

Unquote

Rob the next time you are out for lunch - a lot of people can't afford it - just think about how the nightmare you support has brought the economic world to it's knees and yet you want the same nightmare to try and repair it? There wasn't one socialist, communist or left leaning person who caused the nightmare. The entrepreneurs you worship must take ALL of the blame. Cry



Strange conclusion: if the present financial mess is caused by living beyond our means (mainly by courtesy of state overspending and lack of common sense in private debt) it's hardly the rich who have spent too much they don't have! As you suggest, they do have the money to spend.

(I can already hear the knee-jerk call of living off the backs of the poor, so no need to send that one by return!)

If I am 'rich' enough to have a menu del dia, 10€ lunch, it's because I worked my fucking ass off to get to that situation; often worked overnight through to dawn in order to make morning deliveries to ad agecies, worked weekends when the rest of the world was on holiday or in the pub; and the only 'holidays' the family had were when I went off on shoots and took them with me if I could afford the money or the time, or, alternatively, my wife and the kids went away with her parents because I was stuck in the darkroom for a week or something close... Bugger all came by itself, and why should I or anyone else expect that it might?

It's been the same tale of bloody hard work and almost no free time for the rest of my family background as for that of my wife: both did well and worked like hell to make that happen. Without one friggin' union holding up any client to ransom on their behalf, I have to add.

If I sound pissed, it's because I am: I hate this crap about silver spoons, luck and all the stuff that is held up to disguise the single factor that makes things work: work. You find it or you create it; there's nothing else.

;-)

Rob C
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 04:44:49 AM by Rob C » Logged

Chris Calohan
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« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2012, 08:10:46 AM »
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Going to come into this fray a bit on the late side. Obama will win the election. The debate didn't do anything to sway those who are or were supporters prior to the debate, only the undecided and given Romney's lack of specificity, and Obamas lackluster presence, I think most of the undecided are still undecided. Even with the rest of the debates, the undecided will make up their minds the day they vote.

Unemployment is declining. Yes, its taken its sweet time getting here but if one wants to use the newly coined adage, "trickly down economics," it is right on schedule. I've always used the stock market as a gauge of how the economy is trudging along. We're certainly not back where we were before the crap hit the fan, and good that is. We are however, making steady gains. I have been a staunch Ron Paul fan since before Ron Paul came onto the scene. I really like his politics, especially his views on foreign policy. I don't want to vote for Obama but if it is between just he and Mitt the Twit, it's a hands down easy decision for me.

As opposed to Rob, while I did some professional work early on in my photo career, most of my energy was devoted to teaching young people the art of the darkroom and more recent the art of digital, though this is an area where I still consider myself quite the novice. So I cannot attest to working in dungeonic conditions for days, weeks or months on end - not that teaching is much different, but it is. The biggest difference is in the pay...oh well, I chose the career and was quite proud of how I did with all my young charges over the years. I didn't get rich as a teacher. I'm not starving and I don't have a blue chip portfolio to tide me over in my waning years, but I'm doing okay.

My problem with Mitt the Twit is that 47% he spoke of is me. I'm retired, on Medicare, on suppplemental insurance, and I don't think that man has any more idea of what its like to manage a household on  a teacher's salary than the man in the moon. Putting two kids through college meant mortgaging the house, starting a small side business meant borrowing money from a bank (it would have been nice to borrow from my parents but one was retired and the other drank himself to death), managing meant not going out to dinner very often, not having lots of toys, extras, etc. So, I canot look at him and wish this country four more years off Bush/Bush politics all of which will be determined by the Koch brothers.

For those of you living abroad, the average cost of insurance for a working American middle income family of four can easily reach $600 a month. Prescriptions, hospitalization or emergency room visits can bankrupt this average family. I had a student who went ot the hospital for a cut finger. They did an x-ray to detrermine there were no broken bones, put on a regular bandaid (they didn't even clean it) and charged her $1,867. She was an independent legally (abandoned by her parents and living in a tent in her grandmother's backyard) emancipated girl. Where in the hell did anyone think she was going to get that kind of money. Should have mentioned her school made her go to the emergency room as it happened on campus. Obamacare or whatever anyone wants to call it, will put a stop to insurance companies killing people emotionally and financially.

For a retired person such as myself, depending on the plan, the amount of coverage, and any pre-existing conditions, I could expect to pay anywhere from $170 to $675 a month for healthcare and that with a 20% co-pay. Between my me and my wife, we will pay around $340 a month or about $4,000 a year before deductibles, and before prescriptions and before any co-pays and including Medicare costs which adds another $100 a month to the tally. Plus or minus, we will spend upward of $6,000 a year barring any catastrophic illnesses. Trust me, this cuts into the retirement fund in a huge way. It means we are essentially back to the days when we had kids in high school - eat out once or maybe twice a month, limited vacations, counting every fricking penny and having to be frugal. I worked my entire life (from age 12 as a golf course caddy, to age 66) and this is my reward...whoopee. Under Romney, I would have to double my watch, double count my money and check my back pocket every few to make sure he hadn't paid a visit to my walllet in new taxes.

All I can say is it is going to be a real fun time watching all the bullcrap for the next month. Get your rubber boots out, step up on the chairs...the crap is gonna flow like honey. In the end though, I see four more years of Obama...and really, does anyone think McCain or anyone else could have cured 8 years of prior reckless spending in four years? Gimme a break.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 08:14:18 AM by chrisc » Logged

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« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2012, 08:19:25 AM »
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Rob, what silver spoon are you referring to?

My simple view is that the vast majority of folks work their asses off to better themselves and to build a platform for their children to achieve something more.  Just as yourself.  Most of the world's larger corporations operate and are structured to take advantage of regulations that exist or not across multiple countries. Due to whatever reason, corporations exist as entities that have a broad set of rights equivalent to yours or mine in many, many places.  They also seek to influence legislation and regulation to their advantage.

Corporate motives are possibly comparable to ours: create wealth for themselves to perpetuate and help their offspring. A difference is they operate with a group mind.  Powerful stuff.

Does government do stupid stuff sometimes?  Absolutely YES.  Take mandatory helmet laws for bicycles in Melbourne.  Just my opinion, helmets are a really good idea, but having it mandated has become a detriment to uptake of the local city cycles program.

Oh and Russ, you are not off the hook.  Democracy and socialism are not mutually exclusive and I find your views backwards in many, many respects.  If you want to live life as a libertarian, making your own way, the Australian outback wouldn't be a bad place to choose.  But watch out, we actually have national health care.  I'll second someone else in that the political Left in America is shockingly Right in most other long functioning Democracies.

[full disclosure, I was born and raised in the USA.  I've worked in more than 40 countries.  I've lived in Europe for a decade, China and Japan for five years and call Australia home.]
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Rob C
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« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2012, 09:26:50 AM »
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Rob, what silver spoon are you referring to?[full disclosure, I was born and raised in the USA.  I've worked in more than 40 countries.  I've lived in Europe for a decade, China and Japan for five years and call Australia home.]



Hi Jennifer,

"Rob, what silver spoon are you referring to?"

The one that most of our Brit left refers to every time that a well-educated guy gets into power; then, it becomes class warfare about them 'n' us and all that sort of stuff that is the standard, pop-up item in the socialist argument library. That everyone has the same voting rights is somehow lost in that brand of argument, and the projection is that, somehow, were you to go to Oxbridge, you'd rule the world. To show it ain't necessarily so, I enclose the following item where my granddaughter, Francesca, and her buddy scored the best results in this UK-wide contest in Law, two Scottish students beating the best of England on English Law. I liked that.

"NEWS RELEASE 25th June 2010

In the 40th anniversary year, National Mooting Competition   prize goes to Glasgow

The team from University of Glasgow is the winner of this year’s ESU - Essex Court Chambers National Mooting Competition. It is the first time that Glasgow has won the coveted silver mace.

Francesca Ruddy and Katherine Docherty from the University of Glasgow defeated  Alexander Knight and Matilda Forbes Watson representing BPP Law School in the exciting evening final, which was held in the President’s Court of the Royal Courts of Justice last night. Earlier in the day, the teams had faced the University of Cambridge and Kings College London in the semi finals, held at Dartmouth House in London.

The grand final moot itself was of an exceptionally high standard. It was judged this year by a panel chaired by Dr Gavan Griffith QC (Australia), - a former Solicitor General Australia and now an  International Commercial and Investment Disputes Arbitrator.  The other two judges were:
Martin Griffiths QC, an Essex Court Chambers Silk best known for his work in Employment
and Professor Philippa Watson, an Essex Court Chambers barrister specialising in EU law and competition and Visiting Professor City University, London

The two winning Glaswegians, who first met each other at high school at St Aloysius’ College in Glasgow, were happy to be presented with the competition’s silver mace: “We’re absolutely delighted to bring an English Speaking Union prize to Scotland,” they explain.
“The experience of advocacy through mooting has given me a real understanding of law in practice that you just don’t get from reading text books,” commented  Francesca and “ I have really enjoyed the challenge of tackling a different legal system successfully,” continued Katherine. 

In a moot, two pairs of 'advocates' argue a fictitious legal appeal case in front of a 'judge'.  To win, you do not necessarily have to win the legal case, but must make the best presentation of your legal arguments.

The winners received a silver Mace and a prize of £1,000 each. Their university, Glasgow, received a donation of £1,000.  The runners up received “The Scarman Shield”, £750 each and the
BPP Law School received £500.  The other semi-finalists did not go home empty handed, with each receiving received cash prizes of £250 each.  The cash prizes were generously donated by Essex Court Chambers where all finalists will also be offered a mini-pupillage.

The competition, now in its fortieth year, is administered by the ESU, sponsored by Essex Court Chambers and supported by Legal Week as media partners
ends –
For further information or a copy of the related photographs please contact Teresa Harman
Tel 07770 425068 or Email: teresaharman@th-marketing.co.uk

 PHOTO CAPTION: L to R Dr Gavan Griffith QC (Australia), Katherine Docherty, Professor Philippa Watson, Francesca Ruddy, Martin Griffiths QC


Editors Notes:

Essex Court Chambers
Essex Court Chambers is a leading commercial set of chambers.  Its members act for a wide range of commercial and individual clients worldwide, including major City, national and international institutions, private companies and individuals.  The work of Chambers comes from domestic and overseas law firms and from in-house legal teams, accountancy practices and other professional firms. Members of Chambers advise and act in a broad range of litigation, arbitration and dispute resolution worldwide. For further information visit www.essexcourt.net

The English-Speaking Union - Creating global understanding through English
The English-Speaking Union is an international charity founded in 1918 to promote "international understanding and friendship through the use of the English language."
With almost 40 branches in the UK and over 50 overseas ESUs in countries in every part of the world, the ESU's mission to bring people together and share their experiences has never been more relevant.
The main objectives of the ESU are to:
·   Provide a forum for international friendship and understanding through our support of the worldwide network of ESUs and the provision of secretariat facilities for the International Council at our headquarters at Dartmouth House, London
·   Facilitate and assist the establishment and recognition of ESUs worldwide
·   Focus on key current affairs issues through regular international conferences, seminars and meetings
·   Promote English in international public speaking and debate for the support of worldwide communication and dialogue
·   Encourage the enjoyment and constructive use of English through educational programmes
·   Initiate and administer international youth exchange and work experience schemes
·   Provide and create cultural activities
·   Ensure the coordination and coherence of our activities through the skill and dedication of our staff and voluntary helpers
·   Work in close and innovative partnership with our corporate members and sponsors

Legal Week, (part of Incisive Media plc) is the premier publisher of news and analysis for lawyers in the UK. www.legalweek.com.

The Competition
The annual competition provides law students from universities and colleges throughout the United Kingdom with the opportunity to gain experience in their future roles as advocates.  In taking part in a moot, students do not just show their knowledge and skill in handling legal materials, but also their ability to practise the art of forensic and persuasive argument in a concise and effective manner.  Furthermore mooting enables students to gain confidence in a courtroom setting.
The competition is run on a simple knock-out basis and this year there were 64 entries."

So no, no silver spoon, and parents who, like Chris, self-sacrifice to make it happen. And, of course, kids who do the work.

Rob C

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RSL
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« Reply #79 on: October 05, 2012, 09:39:31 AM »
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Sorry, but this has gone so far over the hill that I had to. . .

For Jennifer: Where did I say that democracy and socialism are mutually exclusive? I said two things on that general subject (1) pure democracy is scary and can be deadly as the French demonstrated after their revolution, and (2) capitalism and socialism (communism being nothing but socialism on steroids) are mutually exclusive.

But I have to go back to Stamper's blast, the idea that socialism doesn't cause nightmares. In that regard, let's look at some of the recent socialist and communist successes. I can think of three right off the top of my head: the Soviet Union, North Korea, and Cuba. There are plenty of others, but I haven't had breakfast yet. Then there are the recent capitalist failures: the United States, Britain (under Maggie), Hong Kong (I probably could add Germany, but it's a close call). And there are plenty of others.

I challenge any of you come up with an example of a socialist success -- a nation whose people are or have been free and prosperous under socialism. I'm not talking about socialism within small, voluntary societies. I'm talking about nations. Give me an example -- an example you can document with reliable data, not wishful thinking, not something like the happy faces of all those people marching in North Korea to welcome their new leader. I won't deny that there are plenty of happy socialists in Western Europe, but their balloon is about to pop. As Maggie said, "The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." Europe is out of other people's money, and the US, which recently has been having a socialist blast, is broke enough that it's going to have to re-think whether or not it can afford unilaterally to provide Europe's defense. Prepare some morning soon, oh you infidels, for eid salat.

And, Chris, talk about going out on a limb. . .  Keep watching, my friend, you're going to be astonished in the very near future.


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