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Author Topic: Mitt Romney's halo  (Read 63124 times)
jeremypayne
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« Reply #240 on: October 12, 2012, 08:46:53 AM »
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So, a self-confessed layperson, lacking the skill & time to examine the scientific papers across a range of disciplines, but able to state that current climate changes & CO2 emissions are not scientifically shown to be related. OK.

How about a right-wing funded climate scientist who held that position ... and then changed his mind ... Huh

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/opinion/the-conversion-of-a-climate-change-skeptic.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all&
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Chairman Bill
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« Reply #241 on: October 12, 2012, 09:12:23 AM »
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It's not about the politics of any individual scientist, it's about the data.
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Ray
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« Reply #242 on: October 12, 2012, 09:15:04 AM »
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How about a right-wing funded climate scientist who held that position ... and then changed his mind ... Huh

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/opinion/the-conversion-of-a-climate-change-skeptic.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all&

Good article. Here's an extract:  Grin

Quote
It’s a scientist’s duty to be properly skeptical. I still find that much, if not most, of what is attributed to climate change is speculative, exaggerated or just plain wrong. I’ve analyzed some of the most alarmist claims, and my skepticism about them hasn’t changed.

Hurricane Katrina cannot be attributed to global warming. The number of hurricanes hitting the United States has been going down, not up; likewise for intense tornadoes. Polar bears aren’t dying from receding ice, and the Himalayan glaciers aren’t going to melt by 2035. And it’s possible that we are currently no warmer than we were a thousand years ago, during the “Medieval Warm Period” or “Medieval Optimum,” an interval of warm conditions known from historical records and indirect evidence like tree rings. And the recent warm spell in the United States happens to be more than offset by cooling elsewhere in the world, so its link to “global” warming is weaker than tenuous.

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RSL
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« Reply #243 on: October 12, 2012, 10:53:27 AM »
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Fine, Russ.  If you can play "I know you are, but what am I?" ... So can I.

I'm not a "member" of anything.  I am most definitely NOT a Republican, but I don't really tow the line for the Democrats either.  My underlying philosophy is one of compassion.  I believe a society is an extended family.  We take care of each other, because compassion is love and love is all we got.  Those of us who are lucky enough to succeed well beyond our needs have a choice ... We can share a bit, or we can pretend we actually deserve every bit of fortune and fuck the rest of y'all.

You, however, are nothing more than a mouthpiece for a specific political agenda called the Republican Party.

Sad part is ... Like Romney, you seem to have been repeating the mantras and half-truths so long you have forgotten the cynical basis for you platform and actually believe the bullshit.

I have far more respect for Republicans who know they are selfish sons of bitches.

With regards to your rant about theories, etc ... I find it to be even less interesting than the discussion about what is the definition of art.

The experience of the nations experimenting with austerity is pretty clear - to me and many others.

The leverage of fiscal policy during financial crises is big. 

Hi Jeremy. I'm glad to hear that your philosophy is one of "compassion." And those are beautiful sentiments about "an extended family" and the idea that "compassion is love."

But taking a portion of the livelihood of one person at the point of a gun in order to give to another person whom you've concluded has not been "lucky enough to succeed" is a long way from compassion. Compassion is when you as an individual or you as a member of a voluntary group -- churches come to mind -- give up a portion of your livelihood to help another person whom you or your group concludes has been disadvantaged by circumstances beyond his control.

Your use of the word "lucky" is a signal that your worldview tells you society is a zero-sum game: that people who succeed are "lucky" and those who don't are "unlucky." But that's not the way the world works -- in any sort of society with any sort of government.
 
The rest of your rant is incoherent enough and heated enough that its value speaks for itself.
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RSL
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« Reply #244 on: October 12, 2012, 11:27:22 AM »
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A few posts back I asked Russ for his thoughts on beating the crisis which unfortunately he didn't reply to.

Hi Stamper. Somehow I missed your request for a plan to beat the "crisis." Here's a plan:

Leftists can't distinguish between tax rates and tax revenue, but history tells us that if you reduce tax rates you increase tax revenue. Bush, for instance, is accused of breaking the US federal fisc by reducing taxes. But once tax rates were reduced tax revenue increased substantially. Same thing was true with Reagan. As Casey said: "You could look it up." There are plenty of reasons for this, but you could look those up too, so I won't gild the lily.

The first part of my plan would be to reduce tax rates on everybody. Oh dear, the "wealthiest Americans" will benefit from that plan. Of course they will. They pay the vast majority of taxes. But the people who will benefit most will be small businesspeople. Most of those folks are sole proprietors or sub-S corporations and they pay taxes on their business income as if it were personal income, at tax rates much higher than corporate rates. Small business -- not the government or big business -- is what keeps the unemployment rate down, and more money in the hands of small businesspeople means more employment.

The second part of my plan would do away with death taxes. The people who'd benefit most from that change would be small businesses and farmers whose inheritors often have to sell their businesses or farms to pay the death tax. That kills a lot of businesses we can't afford to lose.

The third part of my plan would do away altogether with corporate taxes. Corporate profits are double taxed -- taxed once as corporate income and then taxed again as personal income. Besides being an incredible drag on the economy the whole idea of double taxation is outrageous.

There's more, including doing away with the unfunded mandates levied by over-regulation, but by now I think you can see some parallels between my plan and a certain candidate's plan. The whole idea would be, as John Kennedy said when he was campaigning: to "get American moving again." Raising taxes and increasing regulation isn't going to bring down the deficit. Only getting the economy back on track is going to do that.

But let me make a prediction:

Next year Angela Merkel will lose her election. Shortly after that the Greek economy will tank and the Greeks will have to dump the Euro and monetize their debt with a hugely inflated drachma. Not too long after that the Euro will go down altogether along with the socialist European economy. The US won't escape the result. So, everybody batten down the hatches. We're in for a wild ride.
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Chris Calohan
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« Reply #245 on: October 12, 2012, 11:31:27 AM »
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Buy gold!  Grin
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« Reply #246 on: October 12, 2012, 12:08:31 PM »
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Leftists can't distinguish between tax rates and tax revenue ...

... the socialist European economy ...

Just. Too. Funny.
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Rob C
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« Reply #247 on: October 12, 2012, 12:54:45 PM »
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Just. Too. Funny.


Well, from the perspective of anyone who imagines that Europe is anything but a socialist mess, I suppose there's cause for a giggle.

There hasn't been any other kind of governance in most of it for decades; none of the leaders in any of the parties has the balls to implement a right-wing agenda, never mind stand on one.

The interesting thing is, Scotland fields hardly any rightist candidates anymore, and Independence there (without British subsidies, of course) would, proportionately, help the right to a greater chance of more permanent power in England and the remaining bits of greater Britain. Yet, those selfish right-wing bastards in England are doing their best to keep Scotland 'enchained' to the rest of Bitain; how curious... how blind. Oh, wait! Altruism! How rare.

Rob C
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« Reply #248 on: October 12, 2012, 01:02:47 PM »
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I think you'll find that we've had some right wing governments in Europe. Some have had a wide-ranging influence on world events. OK, none of it good ...
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #249 on: October 12, 2012, 01:04:10 PM »
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Why do I, every time I hear Republicans crying over the fate of small businesses and farmers, or middle-class in general, think of... crocodile tears?
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« Reply #250 on: October 12, 2012, 01:39:27 PM »
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Why do I, every time I hear Republicans crying over the fate of small businesses and farmers, or middle-class in general, think of... crocodile tears?

Maybe you're a pinko commie enemy of freedom, or something? You know, someone to the left of Genghis Khan.
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markadams99
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« Reply #251 on: October 12, 2012, 03:26:53 PM »
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These debates are usually sterile. Maybe that's because if social democrats can't see that compulsory charity with other people's money is immoral and corrupting all round, then there's no rationale for a meeting of the minds.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #252 on: October 12, 2012, 03:33:09 PM »
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... immoral and corrupting...

And your views are a perfect invitation for a friendly "meeting of the minds."

EDIT: On a side note, does it mean that our right-wing friends think that ALL taxes are "immoral and corrupting"? O,r perhaps, only taxes for national defense are "moral"?
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Rob C
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« Reply #253 on: October 12, 2012, 05:10:19 PM »
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I guess the plot has given up and gone home.

Rob C
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RSL
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« Reply #254 on: October 12, 2012, 05:20:31 PM »
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On a side note, does it mean that our right-wing friends think that ALL taxes are "immoral and corrupting"? O,r perhaps, only taxes for national defense are "moral"?

The primary and only legitimate function of government is to protect its citizens from all threats, foreign or domestic. Which is why we have laws in the US that require you to drive on the right side of the road, and why the government taxes us so it can enforce them. Since the Brits drive on the left side, had we remained a colony there'd be endless pileups on our freeways. That's why we broke away and fought the Revolutionary war: so we could decide for ourselves which side to drive on without causing highway mayhem.
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markadams99
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« Reply #255 on: October 12, 2012, 05:21:22 PM »
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And your views are a perfect invitation for a friendly "meeting of the minds."

EDIT: On a side note, does it mean that our right-wing friends think that ALL taxes are "immoral and corrupting"? O,r perhaps, only taxes for national defense are "moral"?
This is elementary stuff. There are many treatises on the difference between government functions to enable 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' versus re-distribution. Try 'The Road To Serfdom' if you're at a loss. The high tax and the low tax positions aren't equal and opposite. One presumes to use my money for your preferred causes, the other wants to leave you and me alone as far as possible. It follows that the burden of proof falls on the high tax position. The practical outcome of the low tax postion is that charity (a beautiful word in its pure sense) is voluntary. Yes, involuntary 'charity' is immoral and corrupting.
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markadams99
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« Reply #256 on: October 12, 2012, 05:46:02 PM »
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That's why we broke away and fought the Revolutionary war: so we could decide for ourselves which side to drive on without causing highway mayhem.
Well, I'll be watching the election from US territory where they drive on the left:
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jeremypayne
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« Reply #257 on: October 12, 2012, 05:47:56 PM »
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This is elementary stuff. There are many treatises on the difference between government functions to enable 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' versus re-distribution. Try 'The Road To Serfdom' if you're at a loss. The high tax and the low tax positions aren't equal and opposite. One presumes to use my money for your preferred causes, the other wants to leave you and me alone as far as possible. It follows that the burden of proof falls on the high tax position. The practical outcome of the low tax postion is that charity (a beautiful word in its pure sense) is voluntary. Yes, involuntary 'charity' is immoral and corrupting.

I love how you invoke morality as if somehow that instantly makes you right.

If your house catches fire, put it out yourself.  I wouldn't want your moral compass to be damaged by your neighbor's 'involuntary charity'.

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markadams99
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« Reply #258 on: October 12, 2012, 05:54:31 PM »
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I love how you invoke morality as if somehow that instantly makes you right.

If your house catches fire, put it out yourself.  I wouldn't want your moral compass to be damaged by your neighbor's 'involuntary charity'.


Non-sequitur. Whence do you deduce an objection to a publicly funded fire service?
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #259 on: October 12, 2012, 06:00:56 PM »
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Ok... both Russ and Mark elegantly evaded my question, so I will assume their position is that low taxes are moral, and high taxes are not. But who decided what is low and what is high? What you consider high I might consider optimal or low. And who says the current taxes are high? They are the lowest in decades, no? And as such, they generated the historic high corporate profits and the increase in personal wealth of the 1%, even under Obama. So, what exactly is the problem?
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