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Author Topic: Mitt Romney's halo  (Read 64727 times)
Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #260 on: October 12, 2012, 06:01:52 PM »
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Non-sequitur. Whence do you deduce an objection to a publicly funded fire service?

You said that taxes are "immoral," no?
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Slobodan

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markadams99
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« Reply #261 on: October 12, 2012, 06:09:24 PM »
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You said that taxes are "immoral," no?
These debates are usually sterile. Maybe that's because if social democrats can't see that compulsory charity with other people's money is immoral and corrupting all round, then there's no rationale for a meeting of the minds.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #262 on: October 12, 2012, 06:13:35 PM »
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Gee, man, I can read, no need to repost what you already wrote. Your sentence implied a simple equation: taxes = compulsory charity = immoral and corrupting.
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Slobodan

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markadams99
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« Reply #263 on: October 12, 2012, 06:24:32 PM »
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Gee, man, I can read, no need to repost what you already wrote. Your sentence implied a simple equation: taxes = compulsory charity = immoral and corrupting.
No. For example I'd support a tax for elementary logic exams for citizens to pass to earn the right to vote.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #264 on: October 12, 2012, 06:29:39 PM »
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No. For example I'd support a tax for elementary logic exams for citizens to pass to earn the right to vote.

The forum just got a new sarcasm contender, ladies and gentleman! Welcome! It felt so lonely here for a while.
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Slobodan

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RSL
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« Reply #265 on: October 12, 2012, 06:44:27 PM »
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Ok... both Russ and Mark elegantly evaded my question, so I will assume their position is that low taxes are moral, and high taxes are not. But who decided what is low and what is high? What you consider high I might consider optimal or low. And who says the current taxes are high? They are the lowest in decades, no? And as such, they generated the historic high corporate profits and the increase in personal wealth of the 1%, even under Obama. So, what exactly is the problem?

The size of taxes doesn't matter, Slobodan. The only thing that matters is what the taxes are for. Our Constitution very clearly lays out the legitimate functions of the U.S. government. The problem with our current taxes is that most of them are for things that, under the Constitution, aren't legitimate. That kind of thing is called "ripoff."
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #266 on: October 12, 2012, 09:09:26 PM »
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... The problem with our current taxes is that most of them are for things that, under the Constitution, aren't legitimate. That kind of thing is called "ripoff."

And that would be the current administration's fault?
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Chairman Bill
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« Reply #267 on: October 13, 2012, 03:16:25 AM »
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No. For example I'd support a tax for elementary logic exams for citizens to pass to earn the right to vote.

You see, I'm a socialist, so I find this an appalling idea - limiting the right of the people to vote, that's for fascists, statists, oligarchists, & dictators. So the people sometimes vote for stuff you don't like; live with it.
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stamper
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« Reply #268 on: October 13, 2012, 03:24:05 AM »
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Russ you stated that businesses benefit the most from lower taxes? You prefaced that with a lowering of tax for the rich as part of your plan for the future. Why not raise taxes for the rich.... they can afford it? Meanwhile I am still trying to work out how lowering taxes brings in more money. Is it because the turnover in the economy will increase? You should have stated that as part of the plan!
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Rob C
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« Reply #269 on: October 13, 2012, 05:59:55 AM »
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You see, I'm a socialist, so I find this an appalling idea - limiting the right of the people to vote, that's for fascists, statists, oligarchists, & dictators. So the people sometimes vote for stuff you don't like; live with it.


No, that's not the point and the danger.

In Scotland, they are now hoping to include sixteen-year-olds in the Independence issue vote. Sixteen.

Do you remember what you used to believe when you were sixteen? You can sell a kid any dream you like; the street corners are always well populated by folks selling them what they want, and of which they imagine they understand the consequences, should they think that far. You also know sixteen-year-olds with an understanding of politics, or even many adults with a sophisticated knowledge of it?

I read here these bleats about exploitation, the horrors of the rich etc. et bloody cetera. I enclose a little collage of what it means to be moderately successful as a middle-class person. The lad who owns this stuff is my brother-in-law. He started life with few qualifications other than a very good set of parents and a comfortable home life. Akin to my own. Ive known him from when he was about eight. (His is a Brabus LWB S Class Mercedes and hers has the AMG toys.)

He left school, became apprenticed to a firm where he worked all day, went to college and eventually qualified as an Associate of the relevant professional Society. He studied harder and became a Fellow. His wife worked just as hard. She ended up supervising a staff of over three hundred people, and he created and developed a chain of estate agencies which he finally sold and he then continued in another branch of the profession. He now consults.

In the evenings and at weekends, they would entertain a vast number of business people and hed also play at least two full rounds of golf per week. Its a work-load that would have scared the shit out of me, quite apart from killing me off physically. They have a home in Spain, a very nice one in Scotland.

Now, someone tell me they were lucky?

Those are the people that make life tick; they create the jobs within their professions; their spending creates work in many, many others, they devote their lives to the work ethic. Does someone really hate them for their success, for the fruits of their labours? Many clearly do. And all it proves is how fucking useless many of the rest of us really are. I could have done much the same, but I chose to chase dreams of beauty instead. I enjoyed it; it was fun; it never brought many of the material benefits of a real job. But, it fed the family, showed us the world and much happiness. I envy no one their success because I know it never comes by itself.

Rob C
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stamper
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« Reply #270 on: October 13, 2012, 06:13:53 AM »
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Quote

In Scotland, they are now hoping to include sixteen-year-olds in the Independence issue vote. Sixteen.

Unquote

By the age of sixteen most Scots - if they have applied themselves - will have had a good education. Yesterday on the news I heard of plans to educate them on the Independence issue - impartially I hope - so letting them vote is a good idea. They can die for their country and marry and the females can legally have children. Independence if it comes about will affect them the most because they have their life ahead of them. Some of them will be more open minded than their grand parents! Rob think again. Smiley
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RSL
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« Reply #271 on: October 13, 2012, 06:24:10 AM »
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And that would be the current administration's fault?

No, they've just ballooned the problem. It started around 1932.
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Chairman Bill
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« Reply #272 on: October 13, 2012, 06:31:07 AM »
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Sixteen year olds in Scotland can have sex, get married, start a family, work, pay taxes - why on earth shouldn't they get to vote?
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RSL
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« Reply #273 on: October 13, 2012, 06:39:48 AM »
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Russ you stated that businesses benefit the most from lower taxes? You prefaced that with a lowering of tax for the rich as part of your plan for the future. Why not raise taxes for the rich.... they can afford it? Meanwhile I am still trying to work out how lowering taxes brings in more money. Is it because the turnover in the economy will increase? You should have stated that as part of the plan!

You need to read more carefully, Stamper. As usual, you're confusing tax rates with tax revenue. If you lower tax rates for the "rich" the revenue they contribute increases. I know you can't figure that out, but I'd suggest getting on Google and asking the question. One thing that happens is that people -- even those "millionaires" who make $200,000 -- take their money out of tax shelters and start taking chances again. That's what boosts the economy. Every time tax rates have been lowered, tax revenue has increased. In recent history it happened under Kennedy, Reagan, and most recently Bush. But that's a fact leftists will try to deny, even in the face of the data.

No, it's not because of "turnover," whatever that is. It's because people try new things that might make them a buck. New things get invented. People get hired. More people working and earning an income means more tax revenue. It's something socialists never will be able to figure out.

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RSL
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« Reply #274 on: October 13, 2012, 06:41:55 AM »
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Sixteen year olds in Scotland can have sex. . .

Careful Bill, you'll have every pedophile in the world heading for Scotland.
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Chairman Bill
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« Reply #275 on: October 13, 2012, 07:05:53 AM »
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Legal age of consent in the UK is sixteen. It was sixteen when I was sixteen, and that's well in excess of sixteen years ago.
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jeremypayne
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« Reply #276 on: October 13, 2012, 07:06:19 AM »
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Russ, since you are the only one who is capable of interpreting economic data correctly ...

How do you explain the following two facts?

  1) The economies that are doing the worst are those that have cut back the most on fiscal spending.

  2) The forecast errors in GDP growth rates are highly correlated with the level of fiscal pullback.

As you don't like my explanation ... that the impact of fiscal spending in times of severe financial crisis is amplified and much bigger than "anti-keynesians" like yourself would have us believe ...  

Provide your own.  Please provide a sound analytical framework that explains these two FACTS.

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stamper
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« Reply #277 on: October 13, 2012, 07:07:55 AM »
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Russ as stated in an earlier post it is reckoned that the business rich in the UK are sitting on about 800 billion that could be spent on the economy. The Conservatives along with their poodles the Liberals are in charge. They are moving further to the right into the equivalent of the Republicans type of politics but even they aren't saying cut taxes for the rich and the economy will benefit. In the UK it is called the trickle down effect that has been effectively discredited and they won't foist it on the public. However at their recent annual rally the party members were calling for a cut from 45% to 40% which would merely feather their nests. No thought for the worse off. I suspect Republicans want to feather their nests and tell the gullible public in the USA that they will benefit by cuts for the rich? It is far fetched by you that they will simply spend the extra instead of adding it to their bank accounts. Sad
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jeremypayne
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« Reply #278 on: October 13, 2012, 07:08:29 AM »
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No, it's not because of "turnover," whatever that is.

This just shows how little you actually know about the world.

Turnover = Sales, in the UK.
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jeremypayne
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« Reply #279 on: October 13, 2012, 07:11:20 AM »
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I suspect Republicans want to feather their nests and tell the gullible public in the USA that they will benefit by cuts for the rich?

Stamper, while I don't really agree with your entire platform ... you've nailed it.
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