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Author Topic: same source file, different printer, 9900 and 11880  (Read 1726 times)
Ori
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« on: October 06, 2012, 04:13:13 AM »
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I purchased an Epson 11880 as 2nd to my 9900.
a question to those of you who own both printers:  a file that was corrected (talking about color corrections mainly) for 9900 Epson matte canvas (canned profile), printed with 11880 canvas (canned profile) shows extend lose of tonal range (grayish cast).
Using various profiles I acquired, I get mixed results - better clarity, but I have a weird magenta cast with all other profiles (on the 11880, of course).

is it realistic to expect a print from the same source to print the same on both printers?

I'm looking for a profile workflow solution as I have a lot of file I may have to reprint on the 11880, and would like to refrain from re-editing all of them.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 04:28:41 AM by Ori » Logged
Schewe
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2012, 04:54:44 AM »
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is it realistic to expect a print from the same source to print the same on both printers?

No...different printers, different gamuts. Your expectations are not realistic. You'll need a tweak for the differences between the 9900 and an 11880. It'll be slight but it'll be different. Soft proofing can guide you.
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jrsforums
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2012, 05:20:10 AM »
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No...different printers, different gamuts. Your expectations are not realistic. You'll need a tweak for the differences between the 9900 and an 11880. It'll be slight but it'll be different. Soft proofing can guide you.

Jeff....would custom profiles do a better job?

I have found that canned profiles may sometimes work...but often, their results vs custom ones are quite lacking.

John
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John
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2012, 05:29:37 AM »
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Jeff....would custom profiles do a better job?

Maybe if you tuned the ICC profiles for tone & color. But two different printers with different ink sets are gonna be a bit different. Nature of the beast...
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jrsforums
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2012, 06:12:06 AM »
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Maybe if you tuned the ICC profiles for tone & color. But two different printers with different ink sets are gonna be a bit different. Nature of the beast...

Understand it's not gonna be exact....never will be.

...but aren't profiles....properly customized and tuned....supposed to get close to common tone and color from a common source?

Soft proofing....without iterative printing and adjusting....will only be as good as the profile used in soft proofing....is that correct?

John
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John
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2012, 08:19:44 AM »
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I purchased an Epson 11880 as 2nd to my 9900.
a question to those of you who own both printers:  a file that was corrected (talking about color corrections mainly) for 9900 Epson matte canvas (canned profile), printed with 11880 canvas (canned profile) shows extend lose of tonal range (grayish cast).
Using various profiles I acquired, I get mixed results - better clarity, but I have a weird magenta cast with all other profiles (on the 11880, of course).

is it realistic to expect a print from the same source to print the same on both printers?

I'm looking for a profile workflow solution as I have a lot of file I may have to reprint on the 11880, and would like to refrain from re-editing all of them.


The color difference can be expected. Tonal range is another matter if on both MK ink is used, your image has an assigned color space, CM issues on a Mac solved for both drivers, same media preset, same rendering choice and the two profiles coming from the same source.  The Dmax for both should be identical, the same profile creation method should then deliver a similar tone range. So custom profiles made with the same method would be a solution for the tone range. To get color equal you better start with image editing for the 11880 as the 9900 has a wider gamut. In theory a device-link profile for the 9900 could then make the same color possible on that machine. Cutting the wider gamut back to that of the 11880. Hardly any help to you as you already got your files edited for the 9900.

Can you print a neutral RGB image (Greyscale converted to RGB) correctly on the 11880 with at least one profile without a magenta cast?
If not then the printer may not be consistent to manufacturing specs anymore so OEM profiles do no represent its gamut today.

It is not realistic to expect the same print from the same image from two printers with different gamuts. The more when the rendering choice was not absolute colormetric and the image gamut exceeds one or both printer gamuts, if all the colors in the image fall within both printer gamuts and the rendering choice is absolute colormetric then in theory the print should be the same. That case hardly happens. A printer profile describes the gamut of the printer (so with different printers = different gamuts) and the rendering choices make different translations of the image to that gamut based on the image's assigned color space.

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
370+ inkjet paper white spectral plots, October 2012:
added Tetenal-Kodak, renewed Ilford-Innova-Hahnemühle-Pictorico
soon Bonjet-Permajet-FelixSchoeller-Mitsubishi-Kodak(more)
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Ori
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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2012, 01:22:46 PM »
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Maybe if you tuned the ICC profiles for tone & color. But two different printers with different ink sets are gonna be a bit different. Nature of the beast...

Two different printers, but same head exactly, and, as I understand, same ink (ultrachrome k3),same canvas just the one having green and orange (I guess it's not so "just"). I would imagine the difference would be slight and very specific, with custom made profiles. the difference is very visible.


...but aren't profiles....properly customized and tuned....supposed to get close to common tone and color from a common source?

Soft proofing....without iterative printing and adjusting....will only be as good as the profile used in soft proofing....is that correct?

John


Logic (mine, at least) states that using the same CMM, same rendering intent, same all of the above, same file with assigned profile would yield a... very near outcome.


CM issues on a Mac solved for both drivers

oh my, the beast. can you elaborate? I  use mainly Mirage plugin for printing.
Rendering intent is perceptual in this case, but usually rel col.

My main question, for those who have experience with this, is the difference between prints made with the two printers noticeable, disturbing, or on the level of pixel peeping/nuances? subjectively speaking, of course   
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2012, 01:43:12 PM »
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oh my, the beast. can you elaborate? I  use mainly Mirage plugin for printing.
Rendering intent is perceptual in this case, but usually rel col.


No, but there are many threads here over the past 5 years that should cover all aspects of that issue. Circling around Colorsync, Adobe apps, Epson drivers of different generations. Not a Mac user but it would not be the first CM problem that seems fundamental but is actually only happening with the 3 components mentioned. The fundamental fact remains that printers and so gamuts differ,

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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
370+ inkjet paper white spectral plots, October 2012:
added Tetenal-Kodak, renewed Ilford-Innova-Hahnemühle-Pictorico
soon Bonjet-Permajet-FelixSchoeller-Mitsubishi-Kodak(more)

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Ori
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2012, 02:10:18 PM »
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I should focus my question:

I made a color sampler on the image with values as shown. assuming that this color falls in gamut for both printers and media, both printers have proper profiles made (custom profiles for these specific printer, with their variations if there are any) - shouldn't that color be printed exactly the same - visually, perceptually, and mathematically - from both printers?
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