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Question: Do you roll or spray your canvas?
roll - 5 (26.3%)
spray - 14 (73.7%)
Total Voters: 19

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Author Topic: roll or spray  (Read 2229 times)
Didymus
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« on: October 11, 2012, 05:49:01 PM »
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Just curious how everyone is applying there varnish.
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chichornio
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2012, 09:22:43 PM »
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1- Roll with Clearshield Type-C on Cotton Canvas
2- Hahnnemuhle spray on Cotton papers
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phero66
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 09:38:08 PM »
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Well, its not too expensive to try rolling.  You might find a technique that works, but for me it was too much effort and materials wasted when you get lap marks on critical prints.  Spraying with a HVLP setup is quite easy and WAY better than the noxious fumes left from aerosol coatings.  I'll HVLP spray anything except rough textured paper.  Equipment-wise, I've been very happy with my Fuji.
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Justan
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2012, 10:23:58 AM »
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I use a roller for applying Glamour 2 (G2). My approach is to use the least amount of material that produces a uniform coating. I use a single coat and found in the past that multiple coats didn’t improve the end result, and in some cases multiple coats can make for unacceptable results. When using G2 it’s pretty easy to get excellent results as long as one follows the instructions, plus make sure that the target's surface and room are free of dust and anything else that might end up on the finish.

That said, if I had the space I would not hesitate to use a spray gun, but having the space includes having enough space to place the works before, during, and after coating and especially a proper means to vent the spray fumes, plus using temperature and humidity ranges that are within the manufacturer’s specification. In addition I would also use a first-rate full face respirator and of course a good spray gun and air supply. I actually have the gun, respirator, and air supply, but not a spray booth.

If done properly spraying or rolling will produce very similar results, and of course the application is way quicker when applied with a spray gun. Due to the inevitability of dust and other stuff finding its way to the wet surface, I always do a thorough cleaning before starting, and do a close examination of the surface to make sure that nothing landed on it after I’ve applied the coating.

I typically coat between about a dozen and 20 pieces at a session, depending on the size of the pieces.

A lesson I learned about 35 years ago when using a spray gun is to make sure the room used for application, the inside of the gun, and the air supply are as close to spotless as can be done before application. It is even a good idea to have the floor in the spray room be damp as that traps a lot of dust and over spray. The lesson occurred when spraying lacquer on a baby grand piano. Someplace a bunch of crud found its way into the mix. I think it was due to not having a filter on the air supply. Anywho, once the lacquer cured overnight I found there were hundreds or even thousands of little white specks of something all over the finish. Arrg! I ended up stripping off the finish, and starting over again, and ordering a filter for the air supply. About 20 hours of work blown due to insufficient cleaning. Oopse.  Roll Eyes at least i never made that mistake again....
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phero66
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2012, 02:30:39 PM »
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I too don't have a spray booth, and while the enviroment is less than ideal, its pretty easy to get a good coating without much fuss.  That said, what Justan says is true, you need to make sure your gun is clean and wear a proper mask.  Waterbased coatings don't seem to be as noxious but better to be safe...  I've never had any issues with dust in the air line, but I have had very small clumps in my liquid coating.  There are filters you buy that are throw away and are used to strain your liquid lam. as it enters the gun (like a big paper cone with a small filter on the bottom).  Filter the liquid as you fill up the gun, then cap and toss the filter.
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Justan
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2012, 04:14:37 PM »
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I've never had any issues with dust in the air line, but I have had very small clumps in my liquid coating

I’ve dealt with clumps as well. If you cut some material from panty hose and put it into a funnel or similar that does a good job of stopping bigger goo and the fluid moves pretty fast. Where do you get the filters you mentioned?

A lot of stuff gets into the air line, including at least dust sucked into the compressor, oil from the pump being pushed into the airstream, particles from the line itself as it ages, and of course water, rust and other stuff from inside the air tank.

Back then, I added something similar to what these guys call a water separator, except there were 2 of them.
http://www.centrair.ca/brochures/filters.pdf  That cured the problem for me.

It looks like the wisdom today is to use the same thing as above plus a “Desiccant Bead Air Dryer”
http://www.centrair.ca/brochures/DeVilbiss-DAD-500.pdf
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phero66
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2012, 04:31:15 PM »
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Well my experience with spraying is limited to HVLP.  Compressors, line filters for oil or dust, etc. I believe are more geared for non-HVLP - or perhaps for coatings other than water-based.  In the 3 years I have been using my fuji rig, I've only had dust settle in a coating because I did not let the artwork dry at an angle from air born contaminates (in which case it wasn't the sprayers fault!).

The filter cones I use are these:
http://www.amazon.com/Devilbiss-DEKONES-NYLON-FINE-MICRON/dp/B001UFQBAM
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NaturePhotos
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2012, 04:41:13 PM »
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I started off by both rolling Timeless, a little more than a year ago, but had terrible problems with material separation in the can.  It was so bad that I'd stir it up well and within minutes it would separate again.  Then during rolling it would start to clump, on the canvas!  It's hard to describe, but white ridges of it would form along the direction of rolling.  These would eventually dry clear, but leave a heavy surface texture/characteristic to the coating.  Over-rolling would be a disaster -- a bit like a popcorn-textured ceiling.  I tried multiple gallons of Timeless, gloss and satin.  Thinking rolling was the problem, I switched to spraying...results weren't much different...lots of clogging.  Hindsight is 20/20, but I suspect BC was having a QC problem with Timeless at the the time, especially since it went out of stock for a long time.  I was new to coatings and didn't know better.  

I needed to get out 25 canvases for an exhibition, and was desperate for a solution.  I was able to get Lexjet's Sunset Gloss coating overnight for their flat shipping rate of $10, since they have a close warehouse, so I tried that next.  Honestly, I've never looked back.  It seems to never separate, or maybe ever so slightly after sitting for a month or two, and rolls on beautifully.  I was worried about roll lines with gloss, but it has never been an issue.  The only issue I've had is all the #@$%^! lint and hair that makes it's way into the coating while drying.  I learned here to resist the temptation to remove before dry.

Does anyone know who makes LexJet Sunset coatings?  I've always assumed it's the same as either Clearstar or Eco, but have no idea which.

Edit:  I should have mentioned that this experience was all with Lyve canvas, which I really like.
Marc
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 04:47:05 PM by NaturePhotos » Logged
ColorR
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2012, 07:27:27 AM »
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I think rolling is better than spraying because it is safe and easy method.If you apply spraying, you will have to use masks but while rolling you will be free from bad air of spraying.
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Jeff Magidson
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2012, 08:53:40 AM »
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I started off by both rolling Timeless, a little more than a year ago, but had terrible problems with material separation in the can.

Edit:  I should have mentioned that this experience was all with Lyve canvas, which I really like.
Marc


Marc: Out of curiosity, what printer are you using? I'm using an ipf8300, printing on Lyve and rolling with Timeless, I get ink lift off on dense images. I let the prints dry for for a week before rolling. I'm thinking of trying the Sunset coating.

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~ Jeff Magidson
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NaturePhotos
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 10:01:45 AM »
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Marc: Out of curiosity, what printer are you using? I'm using an ipf8300, printing on Lyve and rolling with Timeless, I get ink lift off on dense images. I let the prints dry for for a week before rolling. I'm thinking of trying the Sunset coating.


Doh!  Sorry about that.  I'm also using an 8300.  I've been able to coat Lyve within a couple of hours of printing -- definitely not by choice of free will -- every once in a while something gets damaged at a show and needs to be replaced ASAP.  My normal wait time, though, is 48 hrs.  I feel comfortable after 24.

I'm a fast roller, especially on the first coat, and have found this combination works well.

EDIT:  Just to further add to this.  I stumbled across Sunset coating on the Lexjet web site when picking up Sunset Select Matte canvas which came highly recommended, especially for its price point and ease of stretching.  Unfortunately I found it almost impossible to roll coating (again ipf8300) without destroying the print, due to tons of ink lifting.  This combo needs to be sprayed.  I managed to get one done and found it very easy to stretch relative to Lyve, especially the corners.  With the thickness/stiffness of Lyve, I have a tough time getting corners to not be obtrusive.  It was much easier with Sunset Select Matte.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 10:20:23 AM by NaturePhotos » Logged
iCanvas
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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2012, 08:47:03 AM »
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I used to roll the coating, but when Epson changed to Exhibition canvas, I was forced to spray since rolling took up the ink onto the roller. I bought a Fuji Mini Mite3 for this purpose. Since I have been spraying the canvas looks much better and I am selling more framed art. I didn't, at first, like the Epson Exhibition canvas. It was thick and the coating caused the ink to bleed. The canvas stretches better with the Exhibition canvas and there is less stretching marks than with their previous canvas. I use just the Minwax water based polyurethane from my local Home Depot for coating canvas. Been using it for about 8 years and it does the job for me. I have framed canvas prints in our storefront that I have had for 8 years and there is no cracking. We sell about 20 framed pieces of art a week.

Gar
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NaturePhotos
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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2012, 03:42:00 PM »
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I used to roll the coating, but when Epson changed to Exhibition canvas, I was forced to spray since rolling took up the ink onto the roller. I bought a Fuji Mini Mite3 for this purpose. Since I have been spraying the canvas looks much better and I am selling more framed art. I didn't, at first, like the Epson Exhibition canvas. It was thick and the coating caused the ink to bleed. The canvas stretches better with the Exhibition canvas and there is less stretching marks than with their previous canvas. I use just the Minwax water based polyurethane from my local Home Depot for coating canvas. Been using it for about 8 years and it does the job for me. I have framed canvas prints in our storefront that I have had for 8 years and there is no cracking. We sell about 20 framed pieces of art a week.

Gar
Interesting Gar.  Is that Polycrylic you're using, or their water-based polyurethane product? (not sure of the difference, except you can buy Polycrylic in spray cans).  

I'm, perhaps naively, assuming the primary difference between this and the expensive coatings we're using is UV inhibitors?

Marc



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John Nollendorfs
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2012, 07:51:34 PM »
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No, you should not use polyurethane to coat canvas'! Urethane becomes hard and brittle. Canvas moves as humidity conditions change so you will get a craqualure effect. You should use a vinyl acrylic product. For a less expensive alternative check out Rosco's clear acrylic glazes. I've been using them for several years with no problems. You can mix the gloss and Matt products. And note, you dilute one to one with water. I spray.
http://www.rosco.com/scenic/glazes.cfm
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iCanvas
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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2012, 06:54:35 AM »
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Marc,

I have never had a problem with the Minwax polycrylic coating. I have never had the coating crack while stretching or cracking over the years, and it is much less expensive than these other brands. Works for me, but maybe not for others.

Gar
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phero66
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2012, 10:44:21 AM »
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No, you should not use polyurethane to coat canvas'! Urethane becomes hard and brittle. Canvas moves as humidity conditions change so you will get a craqualure effect. You should use a vinyl acrylic product. For a less expensive alternative check out Rosco's clear acrylic glazes. I've been using them for several years with no problems. You can mix the gloss and Matt products. And note, you dilute one to one with water. I spray.
http://www.rosco.com/scenic/glazes.cfm

This is great, I'll have to check the Rosco out.  Might be good as a base sealer coat, and then finish up with something that has a UV blocker. For spraying I have stuck to Clearshield Type C.  No issues other then the cost per gallon!  But it does go a long way, especially if spraying with HVLP. 
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John Nollendorfs
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2012, 10:55:53 AM »
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Effect of UV blockers for pigmented inks is greatly over rated! Most premature fading of pigmented inks is due to atmospheric pollution of unsealed prints. Micro porous media are very susceptible to this! I ran a south window test with the Rosco product and saw no change with the canvas I was using after 4 months of continuous exposure compared to my controls stored in a dark drawer. (HP Z3100 inks)
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Peter McLennan
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2012, 07:38:11 PM »
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I use just the Minwax water based polyurethane from my local Home Depot for coating canvas.
Gar

Interesting.  I'm currently doing some canvas tests using "Thompson's Water Seal" and "Fabric Seal" from the same people.  Easy to apply, no colour issues and economical. 
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