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Author Topic: Digital Hasselblad vs Canon 5dMkii.  (Read 2308 times)
dreidesq
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« on: October 18, 2012, 01:26:28 AM »
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Hello everyone.

I have been playing with my DSLR for quite a while and just wondered what all the Digital Medium format talk was all about. So much so I've been wanting to switch to MF for quite some time because I read that it would blow my socks off at how fantastic they are. So I popped down to my local store to try them out.

I was quite surprised that my DSLR was not as bad as I thought and if anything did quite a good job keeping up with the bigger cameras.
Here is a link -  www.bright.vg/HB_vs_Canon -  to the tests (very unscientific and amateurish) but it may help some others who feel the same way I did.

The cameras used were:-
H4D-31 with a 50mm HCII lens
Canon 5Dmkii - Mine. With either the 85mm f1.2L fitted.
503CW, CFV50, 50mm CF lens

For those who like to read the end of the book first, my conclusion from my crappy test is the only thing I could differentiate between all three cameras/processors was the resolution.
For me everything can be fiddled with in Lightroom/Phocus/editing program to get the shot you want so I needed to see what the camera did in the hands of an Amateur like me and if I liked them enough to switch.

They all showed grain, they nearly all had colour noise (the CFV50 was the worst offender) and they all looked quite similar. Though the colour rendition of the Canon straight from the camera did appear to be the best and most accurate to what I was looking at.

Things my DSLR can do that the medium formats I tested can't:-

1/ Live view, Remote Live view with iPhone (without the need for a computer attached to the camera)
2/ Video (Not that I use it much but according to all the pundits Video is the new still)
3/ Tilt/Shift. Well, OK. the H4D can to tilt shift but you have to have an adapter. Well OK. the CFV50 can do tilt shift with a technical camera.

Things the Digital Medium formats can do that the DLSR I tested can't:-
1/ Resolution.
2/ Shoot film and Digital from the same body with different backs.
3/ Big bigger than the DSLR.

I'd be interested to know what you think.

I didn't like the H4D as it was lens heavy. The back end felt light and the lens felt like a lead weight. Plus there was all the fiddling, poking of all the buttons. Erggh.
I loved the 503CW combo as it was weighted in the centre, I love the feel and simplicity of it. It felt like I was interacting with it.
The Canon 5Dmkii is my friend and closest thing to being my right arm (I am right handed) plus it's idiot proof. Yes I am an idiot.

As for my decision to switch to Digital Medium Format, well that's not happening anytime soon not because I can't afford it (I can easily sell my kidney if I want to) it's because my camera is actually very good and so are the lenses. Yes I am losing out on 10-30 mega pixels of resolution and the chance to look cool as Steve McQueen in the great Escape but my exercise was to find out whether Digital medium formats was for me. At this moment in time. No.

My compromise. I'll buy a Hasselblad 500cm with an 80mm Lens and shoot film in a whole lot of 6x6 B&W goodness and maybe get a Rolleiflex 3.5f too.

Who the hell am I?
Well, I'm an Amateur Photographer who likes to shoot pictures. If people like them then that's all good.
If your interested in seeing what I've do to date with my Canon 5dMkii the here's the link.

http://www.redbubble.com/people/redtree
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 12:37:47 AM by dreidesq » Logged
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2012, 02:19:49 AM »
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Hi,

Your approach is reasonable. You need to consider your scanning needs if you plan to shoot film.

You are correct that there are things less possible with MF and less possible with DSLRs.

Your assessement that only resolution differs is not undisputed.

You should invest in what suits your needs. It's your money, isn't it?

Don't want to be negative, just happen to respond in a hurry!

Best regards
Erik
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 02:30:25 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

dreidesq
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2012, 03:06:14 AM »
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I like the 'negative' comment. Nice pun. ;-)

I thought I might just try home darkroom/print making the old fashioned way. I use to do it back in the day (totally forgotten how to do it)

If I did want to scan I was going to try the company who will process the films as they will throw it through their machine and give me a CD as well as the prints.

If that was horrid then I was going to get a nikon/Flex/Polariod 6x6 scanner from the dreaded flea market site and go that route.

No harm in trying I suppose.
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Anders_HK
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2012, 04:08:49 AM »
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... because I read that it would blow my socks off at how fantastic they are. So I popped down to my local store to try them out.

I am per say on the "different camp", I use MFDB and would not like to step back to DSLR. Please do not read me wrong, DSLR can be a fine tool, I simply like different tools and which includes regarding image quality. Having had 22MP ZD, 28MP Leaf and now 80MP Leaf I am of experience that they brought and bring me more than a DSLR will bring. For landscapes it was my 80MP Leaf that made me drop film (Velvia 50), however I also found the 28MP a complete stellar product. Let me emphasize that what we all choose as tool is individual.

There are however more differences between a DSLR and MFDB than mere number of pixels. Am not saying your testing was wrong per say, for perhaps it reflects your shooting and you are content with the 5DII as your tool. Looking just quick on your test images seems you shot ISO 200, while MFDB is best at low ISO, also that your testing was done in simply a camera store... thus seems very limited. I also note that you do not even seem to have processed the files more than at pretty much defaults? How then can you tell what the RAW files contain and are capable of? ?? Per your website you have some good images. Thus perhaps the question you should ask is what you want more to improve your photography? If like you say a Hassy V with film is the answer, then that is a good and wise choice. If however you want more in the quality of RAW files for your images, then perhaps you should have a more careful look at MFDB, and not mere in a local camera store who may not at all know what they are capable of ? ?? I purchased my Leaf back from an agent in Hong Kong who know the differences to what else I shot, took time to explain and show me, and allowed me to demo, test, photograph myself. I also got support from Leaf's Product Manager and received multiple RAW files of scenes photographed by people familiar to the camera systems and of also similar subjects as I shoot. Upon all this I made my decision. A MFDB is simply suffice amount of money that it should not just be simply picked from a shelf in a local camera store... It is something you want to purchase - also used - from a reputable dealer or agent who know these products, will give you support and help during your ownership and also training on how to best benefit from this tool for you get the most out of it. It may cost slight more than from them than from a used store, buying from a prior owner or from Ebay, but... with the amount of $$ a back cost and because if problem with it and particular sensor, why take the risk? I should add... by making demo even a couple of times you do not commit and are free to buy from whoever you prefer. There are also other backs that are no less capable than Hassy; Leaf and Phase One, and they also fit on Hassy cameras.

As compared to the Hassy V there are also two other choices for cameras. One is the Rolleiflex Hy6 which is what I use. It is more expensive but is like a modern version of the Hassy V which feature AF and more, and choice of WLF, 45 degree or 90 degree finders, choice of 645 or 6x6 film magazines, and arguably even better lenses than Hassy V. A lower cost option (used) to the Hassy V is the Mamiya RZ. Look on Ebay for prices. With it you can shoot the larger 6x7 format and with a WLF you will look at a 7x7cm large and bright focus screen.

I am in no way arguing your choice. You are doing right to try out, but for MFDB you may wish to look deeper and with more info on hand. However, if you are happy with the choice of maintaining the 5DII and adding film then go for it! Photography is much about vision and mere shooting in a different style and with a complete different camera for awhile may aid your vision further.

Actually for myself, staring into the WLF of Mamiya RZ more than was healthy made me look into Hassy V and later settle for Hy6... Certainly film is cheaper but MFDB simply brings me more. I am an amateur myself and with passion for photography. Attaching three images; 22MP ZD, 28MP Leaf Aptus 65, 80MP Leaf AFi-II 12 (should also mention, ZD had a fundamental design problem and I do not recommend it). My own photography is Landscapes and Traditional Lives, plus some Beauty; website andersloof.com. I can add that I do not use Photoshop at all and instead use is Capture One Pro Smiley

Best regards,
Anders
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 04:23:32 AM by Anders_HK » Logged
dreidesq
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2012, 05:17:00 AM »
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Thank you for your reply.

I've had a look at the files. Ah OK. I understand what you mean.
Location and lighting does help somewhat to help see what is possible.

The local store as I went to is called the ProCentre in London.

The guy seemed to know all about Hasselblads, they seemed to only sell them and phase one stuff.

I am now going book a longer demo of the H and V systems to see if a proper go will help.
Thank you.

Regards
David

« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 12:12:30 PM by dreidesq » Logged
Rhossydd
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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2012, 03:00:51 AM »
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If I did want to scan I was going to try the company who will process the films as they will throw it through their machine and give me a CD as well as the prints.
If that was horrid
It's very likely to be. Getting the best quality from film scans takes decent hardware and the knowledge to use it properly. You're very unlilely to get good scans from quick passes through a lab.
Quote
then I was going to get a nikon/Flex/Polariod 6x6 scanner from the dreaded flea market site and go that route.
Not a cheap option these days. Even second-hand good film scanners hold their value very well. Have a look at an Epson V700/750, they have the reputation of approaching a dedicated film scanner's performance without the cost.
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