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Author Topic: I've experienced Medium format, and my left bicep is sore.  (Read 8414 times)
gotspeed
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« on: October 22, 2012, 04:29:19 PM »
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Shooting Canon and AFD3 a couple of weeks ago, got a sore right elbow to this day...  Test shooting RZ (outdoor 1st time) with winder, aka coffee grinder,  seemed like balancing 10lbs of weight on top of a soap box, i  got a sore left bicep.  And that my friends is the difference. Any questions?

Ok, so that's a lot of effort to just get an acceptable image that's sharp etc with MF. The life like crispness, in my limited experience with other glass, is only matched by Canon with 85 f/1.2 at near wide open . So you have 1 champ on canon vs most of them on MF.
I have seen drop dead goodness from Rollei/Zeiss (mega price, unfortunately).

Seems that almost very image that you actually manage to get right technically is a WOW image, doesn't happen with DSLR, unless it's the 85 1.2.   If the 65, 150, 180 on the RZ are like the 110, and i think at least the 150 is from my indoor test, will find out soon about the others.  My rake and shovel leaning against the fence, could go into a coffee table book Smiley..

In studio the MF/RZ kicks butt with the rotating back, the focus recompose nightmare goes away. Not that manual focus is a piece of cake but more often than not it's spot on.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 04:16:48 PM by gotspeed » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2012, 07:51:50 PM »
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Mamiya RZ lenses are very nice.

The 110 2.8 and the 150 3.5 have very nice bokeh. I had the 180mm (twice) but never likes it that much.
The 250mm is also nice, but not quite as good as the 110 2.8 .

The RZ hand held is IMO quite nicely balanced with shorter lenses 110 and 150. With the 250 it's horrible.

The motor winder does make it harder to hand hold, however the manual lever is quite lice... big old paddle of a thing.
IF your film backs are ship shape the hand winder works nicely.

The 6x7 negative is nice to work with.
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gotspeed
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« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 09:26:16 PM »
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I haven't shot with film, yet.  It's tempting with that big frame.  I got the winder to automate the camera a bit. When i am winding by hand, I noticed I was hitting the focus knob. So i figured to try out the winder.  On tripod it works well enough, though  even slower, but being able to just wait and keep your eyes in the viewfinder fire the next shot is nice, what a frame rate Wink. It's neat how the image repears in slow motion..

  The L-grip is the next option to explore, for hand held shooting.  I only fear that my wrist will not like the torque as the body appears to hang off quite a bit to the right to clear the left focus knob.   But the strap and support from the right hand might be enough offset it. Without the winder it's definitely easier as you say.

My 65-la showed up today, it appears wide enough for indoor setup , with some room to spare even with the aptus 6 crop. I think I'm set as far as lenses go. 50/210 are tempting but for now I'll stop here and see how it goes.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 04:18:08 PM by gotspeed » Logged
HarperPhotos
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« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 09:55:58 PM »
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Hello,

When I used to shoot hand held with the Mamiya RZ I always used a hand grip, motor winder and a mono pod. It saves a lots of back ach and camera shake.

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
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TMARK
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« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 10:34:13 PM »
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I never used the winder.  I'd rather crank, its so fast and makes the RZ feel svelte.

The grip to me is a must.

The 65m/la is too heavy for handheld use, and unless you are dialing in the floating element, gives marginaly better IQ than the 65w.  In fact, I think only for Macro does the added weight of the m/la make sense.

Check out the 140W and the M/LA.  Nice.  I like the 180W as well, the 250 is fantastic on film.  Too long for any of the backs.
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gotspeed
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« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 11:06:44 PM »
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Thanks guys, i'll check out the grip then..
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 11:21:06 PM »
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Shooting Canon and AFD3 a couple of weeks ago, got a sore right elbow to this day...  Test shooting RZ (outdoor 1st time) with winder, aka coffee grinder,  seemed like balancing a 10lbs of weight on top of a soap box, i  got a sore left bicep.  And that my friends is the difference. Any questions?

The Hasselblad H4D-60 with the 50-110 zoom is only 4Kg.
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Anders_HK
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« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2012, 11:53:15 PM »
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.
I have seen drop dead goodness from from Rollei/Zeiss (mega price, unfortunately).

Love my Hy6 w/80/2.8 Schneider Xenotar AF PQS, low weight, nimble, balance, lovely 6x6cm WLF view...

...did look close at Hassy V...even w/ just 80/2.8 Planar seem such a joy... still low weight.  Grin


(prior had Mamiya 7, mere like tad beefed up Leica yet 6x7, lesser weight than above)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 11:57:24 PM by Anders_HK » Logged
gotspeed
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« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2012, 12:01:47 AM »
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4k ~ 8lbs, so 1kg less. 1ds with 70-200 maybe a bit less.   But i was not being serious here, just making a joke that the difference between dslr and MF is which arm hurts.. What brought that on, the prior 10 page thread about d800 vs medium format..
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 01:52:01 AM by gotspeed » Logged
HarperPhotos
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« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2012, 12:31:04 AM »
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Hello,

I am fortunate to have a complete Mamiya RZ/Leaf Aptus 75 kit and a Nikon D3x/D800E system both of which you would have to price from my cold dead hands.

The great thing about the RZ is they are built like tanks and the lenses are so cheap, hell I just bought a immaculate Mamiya RZ 150mm lens on EBay for $269.00 US and didn’t even need it.

Cheers

Simon
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 01:47:30 AM by HarperPhotos » Logged

Simon Harper
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FredBGG
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« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2012, 01:24:15 AM »
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I never used the winder.  I'd rather crank, its so fast and makes the RZ feel svelte.

Yup me too. That motor drive always sounded like a cross between a Fiat 500 starting up on a cold day and a coffee grinder.
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Anders_HK
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« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2012, 03:36:55 AM »
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But i was not being serious here, just making a joke that the difference between dslr and MF is which arm hurts..

The funny is that when I join photographic gatherings the gents with DSLR frequent carry more gear than I do  Wink. Either are mere plain tools of course and the choice based on preference is fine either way. However I feel weight of medium format gear is overrated. Yes, some cameras are heavier, but even then you are frequent more advanced in your vision which tend to limit the number of lenses. At least that is my experience... When I shot Nikon my system was frank more gear, all lenses between 17-400mm. Now I am for most content with 80mm (~50mm on 135 terms) and perhaps one wide.  Grin.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2012, 04:26:18 AM »
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...but even then you are frequent more advanced in your vision which tend to limit the number of lenses. At least that is my experience... When I shot Nikon my system was frank more gear, all lenses between 17-400mm. Now I am for most content with 80mm (~50mm on 135 terms) and perhaps one wide.  Grin.

Have you considered stitching? One lens is enough!  Wink

Cheers,
Bernard
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Anders_HK
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« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2012, 04:40:54 AM »
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Have you considered stitching? One lens is enough!  Wink

Cheers,
Bernard


 Grin Grin Grin One lens is enough also without stitching, any camera  Grin

(nice try)  Wink
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2012, 05:52:30 AM »
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Hi,

No comment about medium format, just an observation. I was shooting in the US national parks two years ago and hade sore wrist and fingers from my tripod and head. At that time I hade Gitzo tripod and an RRS BH55. The problem I had was that the camera I have is about 2.5 kg. Even when using L-bracket it is really a strain on the wrist aiming and adjust on a ball head. This autumn I was shooting for a week, but this time I had an RRS Versa 3 tripod and an Arca Swiss D4 geared head. With the geared head I don't need to hold the camera while adjusting. So this time I hade no issues with wrist or fingers.

When I was using film I used to carry 4-5 lenses for my Pentax 67 and also 4-5 lenses for 135. Used to be ultrawide, normal, short tele, long tele and an extender. A fisheye got added on the 67 side.

Anyway, good gear can be helpful. Good backpack, good tripod and head and so on makes shooting more relaxing.

Best regards
Erik

« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 11:42:23 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2012, 06:15:06 AM »
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Hi,
but this time I had an RRS Versa 3 tripod and an Arca Swiss D4 geared head. With the geared head I don't need to hold the camera while adjusting.

Good backpack, good tripod and head and so on makes shooting more relaxing.

Best regards
Erik
My camera with a full set of fully-geared movements is great, but 6Kg.

My tripod with fully geared head is great, but 10Kg.

I would not want to much back-packing with either: what dies your geared head weigh?

The GFAE CAPcam, of course has built-in powered movements which also function as a tripod head, but I do not know what it weighs.
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TMARK
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« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2012, 07:57:03 AM »
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Yup me too. That motor drive always sounded like a cross between a Fiat 500 starting up on a cold day and a coffee grinder.


If your car made a soyund even similar to the RZ winder, you would cringe and pull over.  It sound slike a 3 series BMW's window regulators when they are going bad, or a badly maintained industrial winch system.  It is probably the worst part of the RZ system.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2012, 08:44:30 AM »
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Hi,

My tripod + head is about 3 kg.

The backpack is about 10 kg. Two bodies FF + APS-C, 12-24/4.5-5.6 (Sigma) , 16-80/3.5-4.5 (APS-C) , 24-70/2.8, 70-400/4.0-5.6, 1.4X extender + some junk.

Normally I pack the Arca D4 head in the backpack. ANd have the tripd strapped to backpack so I have my hands free for shooting.

Best regards
Erik

My camera with a full set of fully-geared movements is great, but 6Kg.

My tripod with fully geared head is great, but 10Kg.

I would not want to much back-packing with either: what dies your geared head weigh?

The GFAE CAPcam, of course has built-in powered movements which also function as a tripod head, but I do not know what it weighs.

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Anders_HK
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« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2012, 10:10:04 AM »
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My tripod + head is about 3 kg.

The backpack is about 10 kg. Two bodies FF + APS-C, 12-24/4.5-5.6 (Sigma) , 16-80/3.5-4.5 (APS-C) , 24-70/2.8, 70-400/4.0-5.6, 1.4X extender + some junk.

Erik,

My Hy6 w/ Leaf back and 80mm lens in Kinesis shoulder bag, weighs less than your tripod + head combo!!! Smiley

My other lens adds 900g in same bag. My Gitzo 1325 and Markins adds 2.5kg.

Above said, my 10-year old Tenba PBP is the most comfortable photo back pack I have come across. I have traveled ALOT with it including round the world, across Asia, Europe etc, and it has helped carry up to over 18kg on my back in comfort --- always as carry-on!

I now prefer to carry lesser weight.  Wink

Best regards,
Anders
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2012, 11:13:54 AM »
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Hi Anders,

My response was addressed to Dick, and his stuff weights 16 kg.

I'm much impressed by the weight of your Hy6, back and lens.

Getting back to tripods my RRS Versa 3 with leveling  bowl and the Arca D4 geared head weighs about 3160 gram, but makes it easy to compose images the way I work. The Gitzo GT3541LS I also have comes in at 2350 g with an RRS BH40 ballhead. Those 810 grams mean much more comfortable work.

I also assume that you are not that much interested in images like this:

http://vimeo.com/user13834009/review/52012348/534f46deb5

or this:

http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Demos/2012_09_15_CratersOfTheMoon_01_crop1_VC.jpg

Now, we have different interest and we are willing to carry different amount of stuff, that's OK I think?

Best regards
Erik Kaffehr





Erik,

My Hy6 w/ Leaf back and 80mm lens in Kinesis shoulder bag, weighs less than your tripod + head combo!!! Smiley

My other lens adds 900g in same bag. My Gitzo 1325 and Markins adds 2.5kg.

Above said, my 10-year old Tenba PBP is the most comfortable photo back pack I have come across. I have traveled ALOT with it including round the world, across Asia, Europe etc, and it has helped carry up to over 18kg on my back in comfort --- always as carry-on!

I now prefer to carry lesser weight.  Wink

Best regards,
Anders
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 11:27:42 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

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