Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: I've experienced Medium format, and my left bicep is sore.  (Read 7809 times)
Anders_HK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1001



WWW
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2012, 11:40:34 AM »
ReplyReply

Now, we have different interest and we are willing to carry different amount of stuff, that's OK I think?

Of course! That is why we all use different tools.  Wink

Medium format though does not necessarily mean heavy and my Hy6 is still heavier than Mamiya 7. Leica M is of course lighter...  Wink
Logged
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 7238


WWW
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2012, 11:47:32 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

Leica M is not MF, of course. Potentially, the Leica M is very interesting as it can potentially take any lens. It has also a CMOS sensor capable of live view and it can even take an electronic viewfinder.

I'm at least a tiny bit interested in the Leica.

Best regards
Erik

Of course! That is why we all use different tools.  Wink

Medium format though does not necessarily mean heavy and my Hy6 is still heavier than Mamiya 7. Leica M is of course lighter...  Wink
Logged

Anders_HK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1001



WWW
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2012, 12:08:34 PM »
ReplyReply

M8 & M9 had Kodak CCD sensors that were very medium format like. Monochrom which removed the RGB filters has even more such character, and B&W hues similar T-Max. No idea what character the new M CMOS will have, except... will be interesting.  Wink


Mere tad differing species Erik...  Grin
Logged
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 7238


WWW
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2012, 12:52:54 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

Point taken on species! ;-)

The Monochrome even needs filters like in the old days, yellow, orange, red and green to separate color.

I used to claim that CCD or CMOS doesn't affect colors or tonality, the CGA in front of the sensor may do. Leica went with a European developer of the CMOS sensor, would be interesting how color rendition turns out.

Have to wait and see!

Best regards
Erik

M8 & M9 had Kodak CCD sensors that were very medium format like. Monochrom which removed the RGB filters has even more such character, and B&W hues similar T-Max. No idea what character the new M CMOS will have, except... will be interesting.  Wink

Mere tad differing species Erik...  Grin
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 02:06:59 PM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

HarperPhotos
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1236



WWW
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2012, 02:14:26 PM »
ReplyReply

Hello,

Interesting our different takes on equipment. For me the Mamiya RZ winder is indispensable and I have never shot without it. Yes its noisy but like all RZ gear it just keeps on going and going and going and going and going and going.......

Cheers

Simon
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 02:28:49 PM by HarperPhotos » Logged

Simon Harper
Harper Photographics Ltd
http://www.harperphoto.com
http://www.facebook.com/harper.photographics

Auckland, New Zealand
TMARK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1834


« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2012, 09:17:12 AM »
ReplyReply

Hello,

Interesting our different takes on equipment. For me the Mamiya RZ winder is indispensable and I have never shot without it. Yes its noisy but like all RZ gear it just keeps on going and going and going and going and going and going.......

Cheers

Simon

For me it's the weight and added bulk.  I have one winder which looked like it was set dressing from The Road Warrior.  It was given to me by a lady I assisted in 2000 or so. The mechanics were gummed up with mud and dried grease such that it would continiously operate.  I sprayed some PB Blaster into the gears and let it run, flushed it with naptha, let it dry out upside down, then lubed it with graphite.  Runs like new, looks like hell.
Logged
uaiomex
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 973


WWW
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2012, 10:53:05 AM »
ReplyReply

The state of the art Hy6 is so good looking (especially with the new all black treatment) that it seems it will float.  Cheesy
Eduardo

Love my Hy6 w/80/2.8 Schneider Xenotar AF PQS, low weight, nimble, balance, lovely 6x6cm WLF view...

...did look close at Hassy V...even w/ just 80/2.8 Planar seem such a joy... still low weight.  Grin


(prior had Mamiya 7, mere like tad beefed up Leica yet 6x7, lesser weight than above)
Logged
Gigi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 415


WWW
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2012, 11:13:03 AM »
ReplyReply

Weight really depends on what you take. One or two lenses (carefully chosen, such as the 40, 60, 80, or 150), WLF, tripod and not much else is one thing. Chose the heavy Hy6 lenses (such as the 110 f2, 180 2.8, or the 55 PCS, and you'll be sweating bullets. Of course, there are the two zooms (60-140 or 140-280) for those who really like to pile on the pounds.   
Logged

Geoff
Anders_HK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1001



WWW
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2012, 11:50:22 AM »
ReplyReply

Chose the heavy Hy6 lenses (such as the 110 f2, 180 2.8, or the 55 PCS, and you'll be sweating bullets. Of course, there are the two zooms (60-140 or 140-280) for those who really like to pile on the pounds.  

You only mentioned one aspect of those lenses: weight. The other is they are $$. Those are two advantages of Hy6 system that keeps you from buying many lenses, thus spending less and carrying less in your bag!!!!!!!!

Serious, it works for me.  Wink
Logged
Gigi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 415


WWW
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2012, 01:42:02 PM »
ReplyReply

One of the joys of this system is the ability use older PQ manual lenses with up to fat (easy to use) focus confirmation. Having started with a 6003 twenty years ag, lucky enough to pick up a lens every time the market gave up on the system. Over the years that adds up!
Logged

Geoff
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 7238


WWW
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2012, 02:29:46 PM »
ReplyReply

Just a small reflection,

I was shooting for a week in Yellowstone and Grand Teton National parks. I must have seen around 50 500/4.5 lenses of different makes. That is not exactly low price stuff. So I guess that price is less of a hindrance.

I don't really find MF lenses so expensive.

Hy6 body 7900 $US
Aptus II 10 25990 $US
Rollei lenses 2100-4000 $US

So the Rollei lenses cost like 2-3 times Zeiss lenses for full frame DSLR. The back still dominates the cost.

Best regards
Erik

You only mentioned one aspect of those lenses: weight. The other is they are $$. Those are two advantages of Hy6 system that keeps you from buying many lenses, thus spending less and carrying less in your bag!!!!!!!!

Serious, it works for me.  Wink
Logged

gotspeed
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2012, 02:58:14 PM »
ReplyReply

Fun discusion you've been having... Got my 65mm l-a and it's a bit heavy to handhold as TMARK was warning about...  Sad Although I am not sure where the weight really is..  Almost curious enough to put all the pieces on the scale.

Funny, set up on tripod no winder and my 4 year old son pulled up a stool and  started to crank the winder and fire the shutter. So if a 4 year old can do it.. How difficult could the RZ67 be... ISO 200 f/4 about 1/3s with just lighting from tungsten fixture. Noise wise, i really hate it past 200 ISO processing in LR quickly.  Downsized, images are OK.   How far do you guys push the ISO/noise reductions?

Regarding cost, I got lucky to have found a rich dentist (ok i don't really know what he did, something medical) that only took 200 shots, none good i don't think (i really didn't believe he had this camera from the samples he sent me, except for the EXIF info saying it was a Leaf), before he decided the AFD/Leaf wasn't for him and let me have it.  Adding the RZ kit was even less painful on the wallet. But don't feel bad for him, he said he was getting the S2.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 03:03:17 PM by gotspeed » Logged
Anders_HK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1001



WWW
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2012, 03:00:53 PM »
ReplyReply

Rollei lenses 2100-4000 $US

Nah, not if you shop around for used... and avoid the most exotics such as 110/2, shift lens etc...

At least in Hong Kong that is way too much for a AFi-II 10, sure is worth to shop around and negotiate ask...  Grin
Logged
TMARK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1834


« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2012, 03:12:05 PM »
ReplyReply

Fun discusion you've been having... Got my 65mm l-a and it's a bit heavy to handhold as TMARK was warning about...  Sad Although I am not sure where the weight really is..  Almost curious enough to put all the pieces on the scale.

Funny, set up on tripod no winder and my 4 year old son pulled up a stool and  started to crank the winder and fire the shutter. So if a 4 year old can do it.. How difficult could the RZ67 be... ISO 200 f/4 about 1/3s with just lighting from tungsten fixture. Noise wise, i really hate it past 200 ISO processing in LR quickly.  Downsized, images are OK.   How far do you guys push the ISO/noise reductions?

Regarding cost, I got lucky to have found a rich dentist (ok i don't really know what he did, something medical) that only took 200 shots, none good i don't think (i really didn't believe he had this camera from the samples he sent me, except for the EXIF info saying it was a Leaf), before he decided the AFD/Leaf wasn't for him and let me have it.  Adding the RZ kit was even less painful on the wallet. But don't feel bad for him, he said he was getting the S2.



Weight comes from the floating element, but yeah, it seems much heavier than the normal 65mm W.

I don't shoot the Aptus 75s past 200 iso, which is why I don't use it much.  Frankly, I get better results with Portra 800 or 400NC than I do with the Aptus at over 100 iso. 
Logged
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 7238


WWW
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2012, 03:13:41 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

I just checked BH Photovideo price list. They had four lenses an they cost between 2000 and 4000 $US. If you spend something like 30000 $US on body and back I would say those prices are

The two lenses I bought for my Sony are around 2000 $US each at BH Photovideo, but they are zooms of course. The Zeiss fixed focals are not much cheaper. Personally I prefer zooms, as I can very often not vary my standpoint, due to stuff that's in the way, phone wires, trees and so on. So I'm often moving my tripod just 15 cm or so to get the composition I want, and having freedom to choose focal length is a boon.


Second hand prices in HK are obviously lower, but that is not where I live.

Best regards
Erik

Nah, not if you shop around for used... and avoid the most exotics such as 110/2, shift lens etc...

At least in Hong Kong that is way too much for a AFi-II 10, sure is worth to shop around and negotiate ask...  Grin
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 03:29:05 PM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

Anders_HK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1001



WWW
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2012, 03:24:36 PM »
ReplyReply

Erik, in Hong Kong there is only one good place to buy good condition used at low prices: Ebay.com. Local market is in general too high price and condition not good. Also selling is Ebay. Advantage is quick EMS and no import duties.

Actually, as word of warning I am not sure I would trust any used dealer in Hong Kong. Do be aware also on Ebay, some "Hong Kong" vendors state they ship by China Post. Obvious is Hong Kong has Hong Kong Post and they are in China... I also do not buy used in/from China... On other hand new prices are good in Hong Kong, about as low USA, sometimes lower, but you need know where to shop...because varies...
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 03:33:54 PM by Anders_HK » Logged
gotspeed
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2012, 03:28:34 PM »
ReplyReply

I think I loaded 120 film once just to try it.   Then i took all apart to understand the film path. That's the extent of film use since my Minolta  XG-1 50mm f/2 days. I just gave that camera to my niece for a photography class which required a film camera.  Nice memories and images.   I was thinking about giving her the RZ, but thought better of it, and then it dawned on me I still had the XG-1. Stuck in the closet after fixing a leaky shutter.

One day couple of  years ago while I was hanging out in my friends studio/lab, one of their customers brought in a 6x7 negative for a reprint. It was a portrait of an older gentleman in a classy setting.  They had it scanned on their dlab, no fancy drum scanner,  the image immediately stood out from the typical stuff from dslrs. Something about it, depth, tonality. .. It made a big impression on me.   Just like browsing through my copy of Gilles Bensimon Photography: No Particular Order with those big crisp faces..  Just realized i should probably find out what he shot with,  and the outcome of the search. :

http://photo.net/medium-format-photography-forum/00Ru0k?start=60

Derek Stanton , Jan 04, 2009; 05:24 p.m.
More....

Steven Klein, Markus Klinko, David Sims, Fabien Baron, Craig McDean, Solve Sundsbo, Mikael Jansson, Tom Munro, Thomas Schenk, Bruno Bisang, Andreas Bitesnich, Rocco LaSpata, Walter Chin, Nathaniel Goldberg, Vincent Peters.... Gilles Bensimon used the big Fuji GX, among lots of other cameras, but he said in an interview that he didn't use anything smaller than 6x7.
It was pretty simple back then. If you shot fashion, you bought/rented an RZ67 or Pentax 67. Now, it's the Hassy H.
The number of people i can think of that shot 6x4.5 is very small. There was a very famous French guy who's name i can't recall. Ellen von Unwerth said in an interview that, occasionally, certain of her clients made her use 645 (Contax, i believe) when they needed "big blowups" of things. But, her normal work was all done with 35mm Nikons with grainy film, so her 'moving up' to 645 is of no significance in this discussion. Same story with Terry Richardson. I think Pamela Hanson used 645s.

@Robert Budding:
It's not about enlargement size necessarily, until you get to posters/exhibition-sized stuff. It's about tonality and dimension, and having more information in a scan to manipulate it. If the objective was only to get an 11x14" print with the smallest grain size, you get a Canon 5D or Nikon D700 and add a little 'grain' with Exposure. You shoot a 6x7 to get a bigger feeling image. I don't have the words to adequately describe what that means. But, if you've looked at enough fashion shot with those cameras and then compare the images to those shot with 35mm or "35mm digital," you should see it. Look at the RZ images here:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=40287499%40N00&q=mamiya&m=text

Look at a Herb Ritts book (or, better yet, print). Tri-X with an RZ is unmistakable. Tri-X with a 645 looks more like 35mm ISO 100 film.

or this:
http://www.fredericlagrange.com/

What's important to remember is that we're talking about fashion, handheld. Under optimal circumstances: tripod, stationary subject matter, strobe-lit, fine-grained film, yeah, the differences shrink until you get to very large prints. But, fashion and stills are different animals. The bottom line for me was this: 100 fashion pros used the RZ/P67. 5 used a 645. Was i trying to 'outsmart' the 100 guys getting the Calvin Klein and Prada campaigns?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 07:15:49 PM by gotspeed » Logged
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 7238


WWW
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2012, 03:39:58 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

I bought some stuff on E-bay, like bubble levels and also an ARAX tilt adapter from the Ukraine and East German Flektogon 40/4. These two make for a decent tilt lens: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/29-handling-the-dof-trap?start=3

All that stuff worked just fine. But I would be careful buying expensive stuff which can be difficult to check out. On the other hand, I would have no issue buying from Capture Integration or Digital Transitions if the say they can resolve all possible issues. I guess that the lenses I bought may also be cheaper on E-bay than at Cyberphoto in Umeĺ.

But that's just me. It's nice for you if you can find good stuff at reasonable prices.

Best regards
Erik



Erik, in Hong Kong there is only one good place to buy good condition used at low prices: Ebay.com. Local market is in general too high price and condition not good. Also selling is Ebay. Advantage is quick EMS and no import duties.
Logged

gotspeed
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2012, 04:19:08 PM »
ReplyReply

I beat you by $34 from Adorama! came with a hood too! Kudos ot you nikon guys. How long do you think it will take Canon to bounce back and offer something competative with D800. My guess probably not too much longer.

Hello,

I am fortunate to have a complete Mamiya RZ/Leaf Aptus 75 kit and a Nikon D3x/D800E system both of which you would have to price from my cold dead hands.

The great thing about the RZ is they are built like tanks and the lenses are so cheap, hell I just bought a immaculate Mamiya RZ 150mm lens on EBay for $269.00 US and didn’t even need it.

Cheers

Simon
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 04:22:19 PM by gotspeed » Logged
gotspeed
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2012, 04:30:21 PM »
ReplyReply

Re: H4d with 55-110.

That 55-110 looks huge.. I was watching a show, where ex-singer turned photographer  was shooting with H-Phase and this lens. I was impressed how at one point she handed off the whole setup to her assistant with the arm fully out stretched while waiting for him to take it for about 1 or  2 seconds. She didn't look particularly muscular, so I thought it was surprising how effortless that looked.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 05:18:50 PM by gotspeed » Logged
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad