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Author Topic: Harman by Hahnemuhle Gloss Baryta Paper (not warm tone)  (Read 2259 times)
brianrybolt
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« on: October 23, 2012, 12:31:17 PM »
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I have a HP Z3100 24 inch printer and I am seriously considering buying some of the above paper.  I recently saw an exhibition printed with this paper and I was very impressed.  Even though I was impressed, I have read quite a few negatives about the paper: curl, scratches easily, micro scratches on the paper surface and flacking.  Not good news!  In the past 9 months I haven't heard any negatives about this paper and I'm wondering if Harman/Hahnemuhle has got their act together.  Do any of you have any recent experience with this paper and what is your impression.

Thank you,
Brian
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deanwork
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« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2012, 05:53:52 PM »
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I use it regularly, like almost everyday, on the Z and my Canon 8300. It is the only fiber gloss media I ever use now and it looks great for everything on both printers.

It doesn't have anything to do with Hahnemuhle getting their act together.

My previous experience before switching to the Harmon has been with rolls of Canson Baryta, Innova F Gloss and Semi-Matte, Ilford Gold Gallerie, and the Moab version of the Innova. What I have found is that they ALL curl significantly. ( Maybe why Epson doesn't even offer Exhibition Fine Art in roll form). For me the Canson and the Ilford scratched much easier, even before it got printed. The white edges were always marked up badly. Not with the Harmon.

With my Z I have experienced a scraping of the emulsion on the 44" roll toward the far side in the last 1/3 of the roll more than a couple of times. It is just curled more toward the end of the roll ( as with all papers). That scraping doesn't seem to happen on my Canon. But with all these types of papers they are wound very tight. I often cut sheets off the roll and flatten them in my dry mount press toward the end of the roll.

If you use sheets you have no problems at all. The warm tone version is the same exact situation. Both excellent papers with almost no gloss differential or bronzing, that curl a lot.

John


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hugowolf
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« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2012, 06:46:53 PM »
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I have a HP Z3100 24 inch printer and I am seriously considering buying some of the above paper.  I recently saw an exhibition printed with this paper and I was very impressed.  Even though I was impressed, I have read quite a few negatives about the paper: curl, scratches easily, micro scratches on the paper surface and flacking.  Not good news!  In the past 9 months I haven't heard any negatives about this paper and I'm wondering if Harman/Hahnemuhle has got their act together.  Do any of you have any recent experience with this paper and what is your impression.
I haven't had a problem with surface scratch vulnerability, micro scratches, or flaking. It is certainly prone to curl, even from sheets. It is a great and unique paper, there is nothing quite like it.

Brian A
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Mr. Capp
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 11:18:42 AM »
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I find this paper the closest to traditional black and white paper. Nice smooth surface. Behind glass it's amazing.
I've had issues with it getting a wave when ink hits it and curls a bit causing scratches. The work around is to moisten the back with a light water spray and sponge. This paper is not a stiff board like ilford or canson baryta so large sizes would need to be mounted. I print it at 17x22 and smaller, the larger size just corner mounts shows a bit of flex buts its not horrible. I think the profile supplied by hahnemuhle is perfect. The gamut is about as full and colorful as it gets.
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JRSmit
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« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 11:37:29 AM »
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My paper of choice, first on a hp b9180 with excellent results , now also on a epson 4900 both from roll and cut sheets. Again excellent results, no issues.
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Fine art photography: www.janrsmit.com
Courses and workshops: www.centrumbeeldbeleving.nl

Jan R. Smit
PatrickAllen
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« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 02:16:10 PM »
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We have decided to stop printing on both the Harman Baryta and the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta, which is unfortunate because they are both such beautiful papers. The main issue we had with the Harman was surface scratches that would appear out of nowhere. Many times you will have to put a raking light on the print to see them. These scratches would probably be okay for many photographers but it depends on your level of acceptability. For my personal work going in my home or in a portfolio I think the scratches would be ok but for our fine art photographer clients and their gallerists these scratches are unacceptable. Anything less then a "perfect" print is unacceptable and when you have to print an entire 44" roll to get 1 "perfect" 44"x30" print you are at a serious loss in both time and money for that 1 print.

The issue with the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta was not scratches but cotton seeds and other black specks and red fibers. We sent an entire roll back to Hahnemuhle so they could see for themselves and they sent us a replacement roll. Unfortunately the replacement roll was even worse. We have used this paper for several years and have been through many many rolls but its so hard to get a perfect print with it that we have to replace it.

So the papers have problems but it is a matter of what you find acceptable. We are a fine art printing studio selling our printing services to photographers and we cannot give them less then perfect prints. If I was printing on the papers personally I may continue to use them but we cannot sell a photographer prints with headstrikes and banding just as we cannot sell them prints with fine scratches and black specks.

Best,
Patrick Allen
www.KenAllenStudios.com
www.PatrickAllenPhotography.com
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Light Seeker
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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2012, 06:18:29 PM »
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We have decided to stop printing on both the Harman Baryta and the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta, which is unfortunate because they are both such beautiful papers.

What paper(s) are you using instead?

Terry.
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samueljohnchia
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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 11:14:40 PM »
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Brianrybolt, I posted about Harman by Hahnemuhle Gloss Baryta issues that I was facing in July this year, within the 9 month 'silence' period you mentioned. I have been using this paper for the past 5 years, on a Canon iPF5000 initially, where I diagnosed a design problem of the printer and Canon custom modified it for me. This paper seems to be made from much shorter fibre pulp, and is extremely sensitive to any kind of pressure and will mark easily. I face the scratching issues that PatrickAllen has, and I have identified the problem in the above link. You must have a clean environment to use this paper. I have also taken it off my recommended list of papers for clients, and only use it exclusively for my work. The yield for perfect prints is less than 1% on this paper for me. But after letting the prints cure for a few days in relatively warm but dry conditions, the surface improves dramatically in durability. In informal test, I can poke the inked surface with a clean finger and not cause any visible marking, even under raking light. Your results may vary.
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PatrickAllen
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2012, 11:00:46 AM »
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We are currently testing several other papers to fill the fine art semi-gloss (baryta) category. One that we have begun to stock is the Innova IFA45 Warm cotton gloss. No scratching and very few black speck so far. This paper is very similar to Museo Silver Rag.

Patrick
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hugowolf
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2012, 06:59:59 PM »
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We are currently testing several other papers to fill the fine art semi-gloss (baryta) category. One that we have begun to stock is the Innova IFA45 Warm cotton gloss. No scratching and very few black speck so far. This paper is very similar to Museo Silver Rag.
So very different to Harman Gloss Baryta, which has quite a unique finish?

Brian A
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 08:27:14 PM by hugowolf » Logged
samueljohnchia
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2012, 10:35:05 PM »
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Hi Brian,
I don't know of any inkjet paper out there that has a surface like Harman by Hahnemuhle Gloss Baryta. It is identical to Illford's Multigrade IV FB Fiber paper, very traditional and Ansel like, and has exceptional properties for cradling ink that no other paper has. The way the image gels with the paper, instead of seeming to sit on the paper, is very charming. Unlike other baryta/glossy fiber based papers, where the inked area seems like an interruption of the surface. The nano porous coating holds ink droplets very very tightly. When illuminated by Solux 4700k or 3500k lamps, the range of tones that it produces is stunning. The soft gloss, and crisp, almost metallic touch from the alumina coating, moderated by the warmth of a fiber base, is truly a wonderful experience. Admiring a print made on it is never an issue. Getting a perfect print with it always has been. This is why I will always continue to print my own work on this paper. But on the business side of things, as Patrick Allen pointed out, it does not make sense when the QC has been defenestrated by Hahnemuhle and Harman. I cannot keep using one whole 15 meter roll to get one print.
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hugowolf
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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2012, 01:22:16 AM »
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Interesting, I think the last time heard the word defenestration used was in a translation of a play of play of Bertolt Brechtís, and that has been a while. It isnít a word that is used in English very often.

Perhaps I have been very lucky, or perhaps I am still on old stock, but so far I havenít had a problem.

Brian A
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