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Author Topic: Nikon V2 ... 14MP, 15 fps,...  (Read 2791 times)
BernardLanguillier
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« on: October 24, 2012, 12:54:55 AM »
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http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/10/24/Nikon-announces-1-v2-14MP-1-series-mirrorless-system-camera

If the AF performance is indeed further improved compared to the J1 that I own (which is already pretty damn amazing, even compared to top DSLRs)... then combined with 15 fps and the announced N coated 32mm f1.2 (85mm equivalent) a white V2 could open some very interesting options for... baby/children shooting for instance.

The only competitors might end up being D4/1Dx, and that is not even sure since they are just too big not to impact the subject.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 01:28:04 AM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 03:20:22 AM »
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I quickly glanced over the comments on dpreview. Oh boy  Sad  Unless Nikon manages to cram a 80MP FF sensor with D4 low-light performance into that camera and makes some thimble-sized Leica-quality glass for it, the system won't be accepted by the self-proclaimed "enthusiasts". IMHO the V2 is what the V1 should have been.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 04:37:31 AM »
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Yes, they don't seem to like it.

But having used a J1 myself I see a lot of value for some types of shooting.

Cheers,
Bernard
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OldRoy
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 04:40:07 AM »
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Well, this was obviously coming but I couldn't wait - and bought an OMD. We've yet to see any output from a production model but my feeling is that it will make a lot of people revise their peremptory dismissal of the CX format.
I'd like one.
I can't justify (afford?) one.
Roy
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MatthewCromer
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« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 09:29:57 AM »
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http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/10/24/Nikon-announces-1-v2-14MP-1-series-mirrorless-system-camera

If the AF performance is indeed further improved compared to the J1 that I own (which is already pretty damn amazing, even compared to top DSLRs)... then combined with 15 fps and the announced N coated 32mm f1.2 (85mm equivalent) a white V2 could open some very interesting options for... baby/children shooting for instance.

The only competitors might end up being D4/1Dx, and that is not even sure since they are just too big not to impact the subject.

Cheers,
Bernard


The Alpha 77 will actually shoot close to 14fps in good light (specced at 12fps).
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BJL
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« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 09:41:46 AM »
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This looks like a great step forward (not that it will make me regret my choice of the EM5).

Partly because Nikon and its sensor design partners (Aptina?) seem to be stretching their lead in sensor-based AF and high frame rate options, rapidly reducing any disadvantage of mirrorless systems compared to the bulky, mirror-dependent SLR approach. I like the idea that a new player in sensor design is putting pressure on Canon and Sony, especially if it is a third party designer, not strictly tied to any one camera maker and so willing to sell to all.

But also, the resolution step from 10 to 14 MP is important, to help realize the main potential advantage of a smaller format: a more compact camera-plus-lens kit for a given telephoto reach. That requires not smaller sensors themselves but smaller pixels and thus higher sensor resolution in "lines per mm" which in turn gives the ability to use less long focal lengths to achieve a given telephoto reach. (And similarly for macro enlargement ability at a given minimum working distance.) At 10MP, there was no significant size or weight advantage over a 10MP crop from a 16MP Micro Four Thirds camera; now there is a clear potential for kit size advantage over mFT, NEX, and such.

So I am not bothered at all by the complaints about the Nikon One bodies not being smaller than mFT or NEX bodies: at thris stage body size is dictated by the size of the rear screen and space for fratures like an EVF and external controls -- the sensor size hardly matters, and in fact it seems that Sony could combine its smallest NEX body size with a full 35mm format sensor ... but most lenses would dwarf the body.
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BJL
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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2012, 09:47:34 AM »
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The Alpha 77 will actually shoot close to 14fps in good light (specced at 12fps).
The V2 seems to have a special 30fps burst mode, where you then review in slow motion and select the frame you want: see the option of shooting 40 frames in 1.33 seconds and then reviewing at quarter speed. The 15fps is with AF, which is impressive; I guess that this "40 frames in 1.33 seconds" mode only does AF once at the start of the burst.
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deejjjaaaa
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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 10:46:13 AM »
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But also, the resolution step from 10 to 14 MP is important, to help realize the main potential advantage of a smaller format: a more compact camera-plus-lens kit for a given telephoto reach. That requires not smaller sensors themselves but smaller pixels and thus higher sensor resolution in "lines per mm" which in turn gives the ability to use less long focal lengths to achieve a given telephoto reach. (And similarly for macro enlargement ability at a given minimum working distance.) At 10MP, there was no significant size or weight advantage over a 10MP crop from a 16MP Micro Four Thirds camera; now there is a clear potential for kit size advantage over mFT, NEX, and such.

given that Sony Semi has 20mp sensor in 1" RX100 (same size as Nikon 1) what Aptina/Nikon did is actually already "yesterday".
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peterottaway
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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2012, 10:53:17 AM »
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I seem to remember a Sony 1 inch sensor that does 20 MP in the RX100.

The basis behind much of the criticism of the Nikon 1 is the feeling that Nikon was afraid to risk its position with its current camera ranges and produced a "toy" camera. Nikon is seen to be iterating and not innovating.

Maybe they were simply caught out as much as Sony appeared to be by the success of the NEX cameras and the Nikon 1 was put together quickly by their P & S design team to stem the damage. Hit by NEX and M43 on one side and smart phones on the other is not a comfortable position to be in.


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BJL
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« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 11:19:34 AM »
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given that Sony Semi has 20mp sensor in 1" RX100 (same size as Nikon 1) what Aptina/Nikon did is actually already "yesterday".
True if pixel count is your only measure of excellence and progress, but I thought that it was the MP race that is "yesterday"! For me, the increase beyond 10MP is instead just necessary to overcome a resolution weakness compared to other mirrorless systems, while the competitive strengths of the new sensor and camera lie elsewhere, in places like the AF system and the high frame rate and video capabilities. Interchangeable lenses are also a major difference from the RX-100 for my stated interest in telephoto reach -- though on that front, I hope Nikon One goes beyond 110mm sooner rather than later.
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deejjjaaaa
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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2012, 11:19:43 AM »
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I seem to remember a Sony 1 inch sensor that does 20 MP in the RX100.

The basis behind much of the criticism of the Nikon 1 is the feeling that Nikon was afraid to risk its position with its current camera ranges and produced a "toy" camera. Nikon is seen to be iterating and not innovating.

Maybe they were simply caught out as much as Sony appeared to be by the success of the NEX cameras and the Nikon 1 was put together quickly by their P & S design team to stem the damage. Hit by NEX and M43 on one side and smart phones on the other is not a comfortable position to be in.




Nikon 1 has advantage of more capable AF for moving targets in a good daylight which shall appeal to moms aiming for their kids on a playground... that is a niche to exploit
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deejjjaaaa
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« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2012, 11:25:40 AM »
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while the competitive strengths of the new sensor and camera lie elsewhere, in places like the AF system
in a good light only... once sun is out it is business as usual
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RFPhotography
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« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2012, 12:13:49 PM »
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I think before anyone starts crowing about this new sensor, fast AF and all the rest it would be good to wait till there are some tests available to see how it actually performs.  But then, what fun would that be.  Roll Eyes
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RobSaecker
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« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2012, 12:47:49 PM »
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Huh. Uses yet another new battery, the EN EL-21. One of my favorite things about the V1 is that it uses the same batteries as the D7000 (as well as the D600 should I ever decide to go there). Doesn't matter which camera I'm taking out, just grab a spare battery and throw it in the bag.

Other than that, it looks interesting.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2012, 03:02:10 PM »
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Looks like Nikon succeeded again in creating the ugliest camera on the market. Wink
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Slobodan

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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2012, 05:43:46 PM »
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http://nikonrumors.com/2012/10/24/nikon-1-v1-vs-v2-specifications-comparison.aspx/#more-47404

It seems that Nikon rumors posters love the new design!  Cheesy

For what it is worth, my view is that Nikon is clearly differentiating 2 target populations with the 1 series:
- the J2, simple and elegant is targeting casual users who just want sharp and well exposed images/videos. Simply put, it targets the wife in a couple,
- the V2 is targeting the husband, more convoluted, yet they can share their lenses.

I could be wrong of course, but I believe that the 1 series is the outcome of this kind of market analysis.

We, LLers are still not the target, but I keep thinking that the V2 may have some unique abilities. Future will tell.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2012, 06:33:49 PM »
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... It seems that Nikon rumors posters love the new design!  Cheesy...

Not sure how you arrived to that conclusion? There are 14 posts at the link you provided, eight of which mention design:

- Such a strange-looking camera.
- The designers really do not like their customers.
- And I thought Pentax K-01 was ugly … Clumsy, bulky, ugly,
- The design [leaves] is much to be desired
- Indeed the camera is ugly
- the V2 is exceptionally grotesque, in my opinion. I’m a longtime Nikon shooter, but this is embarrassing.
- The design is hideous.
- The Nikon V2, popularly known as “Uggles”.

Time for Hasselblad's Lunatic designers to "help" Nikon? Grin
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peterottaway
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« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2012, 07:27:05 PM »
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It seems that some of the Nikon faithful are arguing both ways when it comes to MP count - with the D800 all the more the merrier, with the Nikon 1 it's a case that numbers aren't everything. Grin

I can't see Sony fabricating a 1 inch sensor as a technological conversation piece so it would seem to be intended for other cameras as well as the RX100. Whether they turn out to be Sony labelled or not, stills with video or video with stills is another question.

But it does seem that the 1 inch sensor is a valid market place, even if Nikon has produced the Butt sisters in camera form.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2012, 11:16:52 PM »
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Not sure how you arrived to that conclusion? There are 14 posts at the link you provided, eight of which mention design:

I was being cynical, hence the smiley.

Cheers,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2012, 11:29:29 PM »
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It seems that some of the Nikon faithful are arguing both ways when it comes to MP count - with the D800 all the more the merrier, with the Nikon 1 it's a case that numbers aren't everything. Grin

Strange isn't it...

Would that imply that a given photographers might be dealing with different situations and that - crazy thought if there ever was one - he might feel that different tools apply to each type of situation?  Huh

Cheers,
Bernard
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