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Author Topic: Canon HW Satin Discontinued  (Read 3107 times)
deanwork
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« on: October 24, 2012, 01:17:57 PM »
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I just found out from my supplier that Canon has discontinued the HW Satin. Damn.  I'm really bummed. I switched to this paper because it had much better fade test results on Aardenburg compared to the nice looking HP Pro Satin that I was using. Like the Hp Satin,  it was nice and thick which keeps dings to minimum with very large prints.

Does anyone have suggestions for a replacement that fade tests well?  The Canon paper they are using in its place is the RC Luster, which looks pretty much the same but is quite a bit thinner and more vulnerable to dings.

I guess I can go with Epson Luster but I can't remember if it is as thin as this Canon Luster or more like the HW Satin.

Sihl also makes their own don't they? I believe they make a lot of this stuff. Never tried the Moab stuff. Wonder who makes that?

john

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Atlex.com
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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 03:02:56 PM »
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We still have a few rolls of this Canon media available in 17" and 36".  Epson Luster will be a bit thinner than Canon's Satin.
Canon HW Satin product numbers:
1154V523  17"
0849V332  36"

Let us know if you have any questions.
sales@atlex.com
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Czornyj
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« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 07:06:21 PM »
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It can't be true! It was my favorite & most beloved paper...

Are you 100% sure? Canon sells it in EU as Glacier Photo Quality Paper 300g/m^2, so maybe they're just unifying names?
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2012, 02:55:47 AM »
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I just found out from my supplier that Canon has discontinued the HW Satin. Damn.  I'm really bummed. I switched to this paper because it had much better fade test results on Aardenburg compared to the nice looking HP Pro Satin that I was using. Like the Hp Satin,  it was nice and thick which keeps dings to minimum with very large prints.

Does anyone have suggestions for a replacement that fade tests well?  The Canon paper they are using in its place is the RC Luster, which looks pretty much the same but is quite a bit thinner and more vulnerable to dings.

I guess I can go with Epson Luster but I can't remember if it is as thin as this Canon Luster or more like the HW Satin.

Sihl also makes their own don't they? I believe they make a lot of this stuff. Never tried the Moab stuff. Wonder who makes that?

john



The Canon Lustre is lighter but has another coating too, the spectral plot show another curve in the OBA part. The EU version of the HWS is Glacier and looks very identical in all aspects, weight, surface, spectral plot but I did see some small differences in Canon's own specifications of the papers. I guess the same paper made in different factories. There are some lighter Canon and HP RC papers with similar spectral plots but you will not find one as heavy with the same plots. Moab's papers are different. Try to get the HWS rolls still available and possibly the EU Glacier is my advice. And write a letter to Canon referring to the Aardenburg test why this paper should not be discontinued.

The Sihl 4802 could be a replacement but the OBA content is higher, the paper base is identical.  I expect there is a new Sihl range/catalog within a month so things may change there too.


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Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
400+ inkjet paper white spectral plots, October 2012:
Extended: Ilford-Innova-Hahnemühle-Pictorico,
NEW added: Tetenal-Mitsubishi, NEW halfway: Kodak-Bonjet,
NEW to do: Permajet-FelixSchoeller-Sihl
Would like to get samples: InkPress-JonCone
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deanwork
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2012, 01:00:00 PM »
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Thanks Ernst,


Thank you. Looks like you have plotted all these rc papers.

Does anyone know if you can purchase the EU version of Canon HW Satin here in the US, or import from Canada?

This is really stupid of Canon. Can you imagine how many of us out here have editions out on this paper and then they just pull it with no warning. Not smart.

John

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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2012, 04:00:08 AM »
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Thank you. Looks like you have plotted all these rc papers.

John


No, there are a lot more of them but measuring more and more I only see a few unique in properties. Which is a bit frustrating. Going through the results I fear the Canon Heavyweight Satin and some that resemble it may be a dying breed. Possibly a process/factory that is no longer alive. The Moab Lasal Photo Luster RC 270 gsm became obsolete 2 years ago (the Gloss is still in the catalog though). I have to see whether the related Sihl qualities and some lower weight Canon RC papers will stay.

Aardenburg did not test that many RC papers compared to their market share. I can understand that choice for more fine art papers but it is still not clear which papers will last longer in the real world measured on all properties. With the Canon HW Satin ranking among the best Fiber and Matte Fine Art papers and the second ranking RC papers quite behind the Canon HW Satin paper, a wider range of RC papers tested would be nice.  The Ilford Galerie Prestige Smooth Pearl RC 310gsm could be a candidate, it recently replaced the Pearl 11 280 gsm quality of the last catalog. Different from the Canon HW Satin but with an interesting OBA buffer in the paper base. Older Ilford RC papers showed mixed results on the paper whites in tests but the range has been changed since. That ever changing supply of inkjet papers is becoming a problem, if bad papers disappeared (EEF for example) it would be a good thing but now we see both good and bad being replaced.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
400+ inkjet paper white spectral plots, October 2012:
Extended: Ilford-Innova-Hahnemühle-Pictorico,
NEW added: Tetenal-Mitsubishi, NEW halfway: Kodak-Bonjet,
NEW to do: Permajet-FelixSchoeller-Sihl
Would like to get samples: InkPress-JonCone
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deanwork
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2012, 08:09:55 AM »
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Ernst,

Have you looked at the Canon Luster they are using as a replacement to the HW Satin ? To me it looks like the same paper but in a thinner surface. But I haven't used much yet.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e02480578b6f

Isn't Epson Pre Luster testing well?

These are both made in Japan and I'm wondering if they come from the same plant.

John


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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2012, 06:45:41 AM »
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Ernst,

Have you looked at the Canon Luster they are using as a replacement to the HW Satin ? To me it looks like the same paper but in a thinner surface. But I haven't used much yet.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e02480578b6f

Isn't Epson Pre Luster testing well?

These are both made in Japan and I'm wondering if they come from the same plant.

John


John,

I do not think that this is a new paper, possibly it did not exist in the desktop market of sheet sizes. The link you gave puts the paper in relation with desktop models and quotes smaller sheet sizes. From the Photokina I brought back a sheet of the Canon Photo Pro Luster LU-101 RC 260gsm and measured it. Canon linked that paper to the Pro-10 and Pro-100 desktop models introduced in Europe. Slightly different weight 260 gsm instead of the 255 gsm in your link. Same name though but no LU-101. But the spectral plots of the older Canon USA Premium Luster 255 gsm paper are the same and both are identical to the plots of the Epson Premium Luster Photo RC 260gsm and Epson Premium Semiglos Photo RC 250gsm  that Mark has in test with Z3200 inks (and more inks), the whites are slightly lower now than Mark wrote though, or I read the results wrong. More tests of Epson Premium Luster show that up to 50 or 70 MLux hours they can keep their paper whites high (100 even, higher than Canon HW S) but later on the results vary a lot. Whether that depends on production batches or changes in the paper in time or differences in qualities for desktop/wide format markets I do not know.  Paper weights are not mentioned in every test.

About 25% of the RC papers, Luster, Satin, Gloss, etc have similar spectral plots with that typical extra bulge in the UV absorption part, and Lab -b at most -4.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
400+ inkjet paper white spectral plots, October 2012:
Extended: Ilford-Innova-Hahnemühle-Pictorico,
NEW added: Tetenal-Mitsubishi, NEW halfway: Kodak-Bonjet,
NEW to do: Permajet-FelixSchoeller-Sihl
Would like to get samples: InkPress-JonCone

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deanwork
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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2012, 08:38:20 PM »
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Ernst,

I wouldn't doubt it if the same people are making the Canon and Epson luster papers in Japan.

I'm going to take another look at the Epson Semi-Gloss. They are selling a lot of it around here. I haven't used it in like 10 years. It may be as good as anything. This Canon I'm using looks fine, just a little too much machine texture if I can avoid it.

You know what I loved about the HP Pro Satin was that my clients could sign the back of it in pencil. It was a great looking paper, too bad it had poor quality brightners.



john

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ternst
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2012, 09:32:02 AM »
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Looks like Canon has now discontinued the heavyweight gloss papers as well, so no 300gsm from Canon any more? How about the LexJet 300gsm - it is the same paper? The lighter papers just seem flimsy to me when making large prints...
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