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Author Topic: DXO 8  (Read 13240 times)
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2012, 07:43:29 AM »
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No, no.  Not at all.  Was just trying to clarify.
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2012, 07:49:27 AM »
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As today no additional feedback on this issue...

Starting to be disapointed.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2012, 06:09:13 PM »
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I am glad to report that DxO 8.01 fixed the issue.

A big thank you to DxO for their quick action.

As expected, there is a need to disable GPU acceleration but the images are correctly displayed once it is done.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 06:11:34 PM by BernardLanguillier » Logged

A few images online here!
walter.sk
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« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2013, 02:36:00 PM »
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I've been playing with the DxO v8 trial version for a few days.  I find its somewhat easier to use than version 6, which I bought and then abandoned.  I have an nVidia Geforce 460 with 1Gb video ram on a first generation i7 machine running Win7 64bits, and there seems to be no problem video-wise with using DxO.

I currently use LR4.3 and CS6, which I like very much.  I'm impressed with several features of DxO v8, particularly the noise reduction, lens and geometric distortion corrections, and the smart lighting and exposure compensation.  I miss the selective adjustments of LR4/CS6 (adjustment brush, graduated n.d. filter, for example) but as usual, there are some raw files shot with my 5DIII that I like better with DxO.  I may buy it, since the upgrade price is reasonable, but I'm not yet persuaded.

I ran into a problem, and I hope somebody here has an easy way out of it.  I point the DxO folder browser at a folder of CR2's, some of which have been adjusted in LR and some, not.  If I process an unadjusted file in DxO and process it as a tiff and also a dng, back to the original folder, there is no problem after I import it.  However, if the file already has LR adjustments, it still shows up in DxO as an unadjusted raw file but after working on and processing it in DxO, it imports back into LR and looks like hell.  I think it is adding the prior LR adjustments on top of the adjustments from DxO.

I would like to be able to work on a file in LR and compare it with the DxO-processed file side by side but this does not seem possible.  What, if anything, am I failing to understand?
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FranciscoDisilvestro
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« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2013, 04:29:27 PM »
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Hi,

In DXO 8 go to Edit -> Preferences, "General" tab, in the Processing section uncheck the option "Preserve metadata in XMP sidecars for RAW images"

(Just in case, this option was in the "Process" tab of  the preferences in DXO 7)

Regards,
Francisco
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walter.sk
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« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2013, 06:20:23 PM »
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Hi,

In DXO 8 go to Edit -> Preferences, "General" tab, in the Processing section uncheck the option "Preserve metadata in XMP sidecars for RAW images"

(Just in case, this option was in the "Process" tab of  the preferences in DXO 7)

Regards,
Francisco
Thank you, Francisco.  It worked.
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thierrylegros396
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« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2013, 02:44:28 AM »
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Good Morning,

I've bought DXO 8 Pro and have some problems when working with LR4.3 !

As Highlight recovery is far better with LR and mostly because all my photos are referenced in LR, my workflow is like that: opening in LR4.3, some adjustments (WB, Exp, Contrast, Noise Reduction, some sharpening) than export to DXO (TIFF 16 bits) some adjustments (Optical corrections mostly) than return to LR to fine tune and export to JPG.

But ... after working with DXO, the photos seems to have No Corrections from DXO when returning to LR. More the DXO pdf (French version: Travailler_avec_Lightroom_et_DxOOpticsPro6.pdf) says it automaticaly export to Lightroom in TIFF format, but it asks me to choose an export format Huh.

After some trials I have succeeded to go back to LR, but I'm not sure that DXO corrections have been applied !

More, with RX100 and other compacts, doesn't LR4.3 automaticaly apply some optical corrections as Barrel distorsion, vignetting, ... that are not possible to defeat ??

So, what's the best workflow that works for me ?!

Have a Nice W-E.

Thierry
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FranciscoDisilvestro
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« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2013, 08:08:58 AM »
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Hi,

A couple of comments:

Quote
After some trials I have succeeded to go back to LR, but I'm not sure that DXO corrections have been applied !

Have you imported in LR the TIFF file you exported from DxO? It usually does not perform the edits in the original file, so maybe you are just looking at the Tiff generated by LR. If this is not the case then try with some exagerated edits which would be impossible not to notice.

The difference in the behavior from your french manual is that it was for the version 6. Interaction between DxO and LR has changed a lot. In version 6 you could even browse the LR catalog, not anymore Sad

Don't know about the RX100 or other compacts. With most cameras, all settings are editable and can be "defeated". You have the option to create your own presets.


My suggestions to use both DxO and LR:

Option 1 (the one I use):
- Start with the Raw file in DxO and perform the desired corrections plus white balance there (this is important only if you will need recovery of clipped areas in LR)
- Export to LR in DNG format.
- Import the DNG file in LR and perform the rest of the edits (remember to reassign the camera profile to your desired one)

Option 2:
- Start with your current workflow with the LR edits, but instead of exporting a Tiff, just create a sidecar (.xmp) file (if you don't have one by default)
- Go to DxO and open the original Raw file (now the tricky part of this workflow, is that you will not see the LR edits in DxO)
- Apply the desired edits in DxO (just don't make redundant edits with those you made in LR)
- Make sure that the option "Preserve Metadata in XMP sidecars for RAW images" is checked in the preferences (Edit -> Preferences, tab: "General")
- Export as a DNG
- Import the DNG file into LR, now both the previous LR edits and the DxO edits will be applied.

Why don't use Tiffs?
-Unles you work with RAWs/DNGs, DxO is limited to AdobeRGB (so make sure the Tiff you export from LR is in that color space)
-The DNG from DxO is a "Linear DNG", meaning that it has been demosaiced but no color space conversion or gamma encoding has been applied yet, so you conserve almost the full potential of the RAW file to work in LR

The issue with WB and clipped channels: I found this by experimentation. The DNG export form DxO is a true 16 bits per channel file, but clipped values from typical 12 - 14 bit RAW images are not translated to clipped values in 16 bits. If you apply then highlight recovery, LR does not see clipped values, just very bright values. When you adjust WB later in LR, those highlights will have a color cast.

I'll use this workflow only if I need the optical corrections, which in my experience and tests, are superior in DxO, (at least for my current cameras / lenses). YMMV.

Regards,
Francisco
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thierrylegros396
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« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2013, 05:55:39 AM »
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Hi,

My suggestions to use both DxO and LR:

Option 1 (the one I use):
- Start with the Raw file in DxO and perform the desired corrections plus white balance there (this is important only if you will need recovery of clipped areas in LR)
- Export to LR in DNG format.
- Import the DNG file in LR and perform the rest of the edits (remember to reassign the camera profile to your desired one)

Option 2:
- Start with your current workflow with the LR edits, but instead of exporting a Tiff, just create a sidecar (.xmp) file (if you don't have one by default)
- Go to DxO and open the original Raw file (now the tricky part of this workflow, is that you will not see the LR edits in DxO)
- Apply the desired edits in DxO (just don't make redundant edits with those you made in LR)
- Make sure that the option "Preserve Metadata in XMP sidecars for RAW images" is checked in the preferences (Edit -> Preferences, tab: "General")
- Export as a DNG
- Import the DNG file into LR, now both the previous LR edits and the DxO edits will be applied.

Why don't use Tiffs?
-Unles you work with RAWs/DNGs, DxO is limited to AdobeRGB (so make sure the Tiff you export from LR is in that color space)
-The DNG from DxO is a "Linear DNG", meaning that it has been demosaiced but no color space conversion or gamma encoding has been applied yet, so you conserve almost the full potential of the RAW file to work in LR

The issue with WB and clipped channels: I found this by experimentation. The DNG export form DxO is a true 16 bits per channel file, but clipped values from typical 12 - 14 bit RAW images are not translated to clipped values in 16 bits. If you apply then highlight recovery, LR does not see clipped values, just very bright values. When you adjust WB later in LR, those highlights will have a color cast.

I'll use this workflow only if I need the optical corrections, which in my experience and tests, are superior in DxO, (at least for my current cameras / lenses). YMMV.

Regards,
Francisco

Hi Francisco,

You've just pointed the main problem with DXO, often clipped highlights have strong color cast (not the case with Lightroom) !

That's why I want to open the raw file in LR. As soon as I open the raw in DXO,  most of my "HDR" files have these colorcast !

May you confirm that with your "Option 1" the highlights will be "preserved" from colorcast problems. ?!

LR is better than DXO for a lot of things, but DXO removes CA better !

Have a Nice Day.

Thierry
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FranciscoDisilvestro
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« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2013, 03:30:42 AM »
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May you confirm that with your "Option 1" the highlights will be "preserved" from colorcast problems. ?!

Yes, I have attached a test image to prove it.

First, I shot an image containing a reference (color checker) with no clipped values and a large area where all channels were clipped.
In the first attached image (DXO DNG Clipped Raw.jpg) you could see a raw rendering from RawDigger, showing a large blown area and its corresponding Raw histogram

Then I processed three images according to the following:

1.- 100% in LR 4.3, White balanced to the 4 gray patch in the Color checker
2.- RAW in DxO 8, optical corrections and WB to the 4 gray patch in the Color checker, exported to DNG
3.- Raw DxO 8, optical corrections and an arbitrary WB, exported to DNG

The second attached file (DXO DNG b.jpg) shows how the images look at this stage (after importing the resulting DNG in 2 and 3in LR).
Left: LR, Center DxO DNG with correct white balance, Right DxO DNG with wrong White Balance

Then, to show what happens with the highlights I performed the following steps in LR:

1.- Image 3 (wrong WB) applied WB to the 4 gray patch in the Color checker
2.- Exposure compensation of -2.5 EV
3.- Whites slider: -48

The result is shown in the third attached image (DXO DNG clipped.jpg). Left: Image totally processed in LR, Center: Image processed in DxO with correct WB then imported in LR, Right: Image processed in DxO, imported in LR and WB in LR

Note the strong color cast in the area that was originally blown out in the image that had the White balance performed in LR (that's not the sky color, it is a strong cyan color cast).

There is also a difference in how the blown area is handled between the image processed only in LR and the image processed first in DxO with the correct white balance. The issue is that the clipped values in the original RAW do not translate to clipped values in the DNG file, so LR don't interpret them as clipped values. At least if you WB in DxO, those areas will have a neutral value.



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thierrylegros396
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« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2013, 03:53:40 AM »
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OK, thanks for explanations and examples !

That will work with several images, especially those with cyan sky.

But I also have some rising sun photos with red-orange-yellow gradient, all are smooth with LR, histogram with one white peak.

With DXO, I have a lot of banding, because 1, 2, or 3 channels clipped, histogram with several color peaks !

So, how to do with those, as the "neutral WB" seems to be not possible ?!

If you want, I can place some raw examples available in Skydrive.

Have a Nice Day.

Thierry
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FranciscoDisilvestro
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« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2013, 05:06:02 AM »
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Those scenarios could be tricky. It may be the case that the best overall result is obtained by processing the image in LR only.

With images that I really care, I test different options for Raw conversion an editing (not a valid approach for high volume or where time is an issue).

I'll be happy to check some of your RAWs if you make them available.

Regards,
Francisco
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thierrylegros396
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« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2013, 11:54:21 AM »
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Many Thanks Francisco,

I post the most problematic Picture only because my Internet Connexion is sooo slow today Huh Roll Eyes

Here is the link to DSC00798 !

http://sdrv.ms/VtZPO8

Have a Nice Day.

Thierry
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 11:56:47 AM by thierrylegros396 » Logged
FranciscoDisilvestro
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« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2013, 10:19:50 PM »
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Here is the link to DSC00798 !

Hi,

The image you linked is one of those cases that is very problematic to process in the suggested workflow (DxO -> DNG -> LR)
The main issue (common with images that include the sun or areas near it) is that the RGB channels start clipping in different regions, so the areas where only one or two channels are clipped are very difficult to handle

The first attached image shows the raw file (Rawdigger). You could see in the top left area different patterns, showing where individual channels are clipped and then a solid red region where all channels are clipped. The right part shows the raw histogram, with the evidence of clipping in all channels

The second attached image shows three different approaches, not much beyond default settings, just to illustrate the points. The left image is the DNG generated in DxO then processed in LR. Notice the "bands" of different colors around the blown area. The middle is the same image but processed only in LR from the begginning. The tones are better, but the area that is blown out in all channels is neutral, which could be what you want or not.

Another approach (not available in LR or DxO) are raw converters with algorithms for color propagation in clipped areas, as it is shown in the right part. This was processed in Photo Ninja (I'm impressed btw).

Again, these are very quick processings, I'm sure there are plenty of people that could do a better job, but the idea was to show the issues with large clipped areas.

I still believe that my proposed workflow of DxO -> DNG -> LR works when you are dealing with specular reflections or small areas where all channels clip togheter and you want to avoid color cast in those areas.

Regards,
Francisco
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 10:21:34 PM by FranciscoDisilvestro » Logged

thierrylegros396
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« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2013, 03:57:09 AM »
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Many Thanks for your interresting comparison Francisco !

I prefer the "LR only" appproach more neutral even if the colors are less vibrant.

Noticed that I've also made comparison between G15 and RX100, the former clips better, but I don't know why !

Have a Nice Day !

Thierry
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