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Author Topic: Capture One 7: the 12 Things You Need to Know  (Read 32050 times)
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #100 on: November 11, 2012, 07:02:36 PM »
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Doug, can you tell me a bit more about the new structure tool?   I like it, and it seems like the detail slider in LR4 in terms of bringing up fine details.  I seem to be able to substitute some structure for sharpening but obviously they are not the same thing.  Just curious what its doing exactly.

Techie Oriented Explanation

There are four tools that relate to detail. Here is a very high-level technical explanation of them:
- Details slider: loosely related to the "surface" slider in v6. Changes variables/approaches in the the underlying rendering of the data
- Sharpening: narrow-radius USM-like adjustment with limited-range adjustability on radius and threshold
- Structure: mid-radius USM-like adjustment
- Clarity: large-radius USM-like adjustment

The details slider is therefore the only one that could not be generally mimic'd in Photoshop with variously-set USM combinations. It's just nice to be able to use them in a Raw processor where you get all the normal raw-workflow benefits (apply them non-destructively, reversibly, locally, en-masse, and either at the time of capture before first-impression of the image is made or after the capture during editing)

Interestingly structure and clarity can be applied in negative amounts. I've found great results with negative structure on portraits, especially when applied as a local adjustment (e.g. masking out the eyes). Most US retouching maintains some level of the original pore-structure of the skin (other styles of retouching might go for a more plastic pore-free look; this discussion does not apply to that style) in which case a standard "blur" effect is not useful as it will blur the pore-structure. Instead you want an evening out of the skin tonality and negative structure does a great job of that. This is similar to the low/high frequency photoshop technique (but again, without having to leave raw).

Non Techie Explanation

Details slider: changes rendering of fine texture, and micro-detail
Sharpening: effects how much small-sized subject detail looks (e.g. the hair/eyelashes in a full-length portrait)
Structure: effects how mid-sized subject details look (e.g. the check bone structure in a full-length portrait)
Clarity: effects local contrast and "pop" of the image overall (the bodyshape and overall "pop" in a full-length portrait)
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #101 on: November 11, 2012, 07:11:47 PM »
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Is there a minimum Graphic card needed before it really gives a difference?
Also openCL is not used with local adjustments (whch are clearly improved in 7.0).

What are the things you suggest to speed up "using" C1, I'm don't need to improve the "processing" step.

I have to check with the Dev team (or maybe Grover knows for sure off-hand) but I don't believe viewing at 100% leverages Open CL.

Here are two articles I authored that might help. I have not (yet) updated them specifically for v6.
Computer Upgrades
Speeding Capture One

Those articles are fairly comprehensive - glad to answer any questions that come up from those. But if you're looking for more than that you're probably in the range of one of our Capture One Training Options (likely the POCP or COMP programs).

Though as full disclosure I don't do much keeping track of hardware configurations for Windows. So can't promise any fine-grain advice there.

Generally speaking Open CL came into play in C1v6 (most adjustments) and has been expanded into more areas (processing) in v7 and I expect it will continue to be expanded (e.g. maybe some of the areas where it can't help will be expanded).

Depending on WHY you are zooming in, you may find a dedicated focus window, using the associated focus cursor is better for visual continuity and faster. You may also find the loupe tool useful. If you are zooming in to visually inspect large areas of the image or do careful masking you will find neither of those suggestions useful. If you are zooming in to check focus on a specific subject area you may find them much better than zooming the entire window (which renders a much larger area of the image than the other two approaches and is therefore inherently slower). You may find focus mask useful depending on the shooting environments and subject matter you handle; it's especially effective for scheimflug movements and shallow DOF shots.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 07:13:35 PM by Doug Peterson » Logged

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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #102 on: November 11, 2012, 07:25:34 PM »
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Im with Fred on this one have tried a few times to get C7 to work with my Nikon D800E but after about half a dozen frames I get the spinning wheel of death on my Mac which then I have to force quit.

Im just hoping that Control my Nikon is as good as they say but I will have to wait till January when it comes out in Mac.

Like I said, I agree with the fact that there are workflows/configurations for which C1v7.0 is not stable. I highlighted this as one of the "12 things you need to know about v7" on two public forums and our own website and in our email blast about c1v7. I want to make sure that all potential users (especially those with deadlines/pressure and a livelihood on the line) to know this. Granted, anyone who has used a computer should know that it's very much expected for the first version of a major release of any modern-day software (whether Apple, Adobe, Phase or other) to have bugs - but it can't help to remind people.

I'm happy when users here share their stability-experiences of c1v7 alongside other relevant experience good or bad (speed, quality of adjustments, adjust toolset etc) - assuming they are doing so out of a motivation to contribute useful information to this community. This is clearly not FredBGG's motivation (as is clearly illustrated by dozens of his posts in the past few months); he simply seeks to find any negative thing to say about anything that Phase One does and shout it as loudly and frequently as possible. I shouldn't even reply to him, but trolling is (by definition and intention) so good at stirring up emotion isn't it?? Such a shame - he clearly has useful knowledge he could contribute to this board if he'd give up his witch hunt.

As a side note, I hope you are submitting the crash reports when not too inconvenient for you (nobody would expect you to take the time to do so in the middle of a shoot for instance). Those crash reports are very useful to the dev team.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 07:31:43 PM by Doug Peterson » Logged

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FredBGG
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« Reply #103 on: November 11, 2012, 08:38:56 PM »
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I'm happy when users here share their stability-experiences of c1v7 alongside other relevant experience good or bad (speed, quality of adjustments, adjust toolset etc) - assuming they are doing so out of a motivation to contribute useful information to this community. This is clearly not FredBGG's motivation (as is clearly illustrated by dozens of his posts in the past few months); he simply seeks to find any negative thing to say about anything that Phase One does and shout it as loudly and frequently as possible. I shouldn't even reply to him, but trolling is (by definition and intention) so good at stirring up emotion isn't it?? Such a shame - he clearly has useful knowledge he could contribute to this board if he'd give up his witch hunt.

Doug I was not aware of any rule by which my posts have to be pleasing to a sales man selling what I may be criticizing.

In case you would like to know I just recommended a phase one back to someone today. Actually to a forum member....

Regarding both Capture One and it's integration of Microsoft Expression Media functionality... well I would love it to work.
C1 is well priced and if it were reasonably stable it would be a good application to use in certain situations, especially if CL acceleration
works better.

You must admit that this release is way too premature with the stability issues it has.

You compare this with Adobe.... well I have been an Adobe beta tester as well as been asked to visit Adobe for their brainstorming.
I can assure you that I have never seen a major adobe release to be anywhere near as unstable as this is even in their public beta releases.
A few bugs ... sure. Stability with complex projects, maybe, but not overall application instability.

This should really have been a beta release, not something that can be recommended to get faster tethering.
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chrismuc
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« Reply #104 on: November 11, 2012, 09:07:26 PM »
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thx mshi2008!
I assume that would be similar in the Mac version ... strange that I did not see it.
(can't check now coz already uninstalled C1)
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #105 on: November 12, 2012, 01:46:49 AM »
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Doug,
Thanks for the explanation of those tools. 
Eric
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ctz
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« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2012, 02:42:21 AM »
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ctz,

This weekend the IT department is working on some maintenance which means that some of the pages including the forum are temporarily unavailable.

Apologies for the inconvenience

Yair

You were right. Now is up and running again.
Thanks.
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ACH DIGITAL
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« Reply #107 on: November 12, 2012, 09:41:11 AM »
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Well, aside from the problems we all want to address and that should be done in an informative way without harsh connotations, comprehensive of the fact that we all are going to benefit from the updates that they are going to generate, I'm very happy with the results I'm getting as a new user of the software.
The colors, tonality and ease of handling the files, makes it as a great investment.
Actually I found myself converting old files again with a new perspective.



I'm planing to install a USB3 card in my Mac Pro and a better GPU than the one that it brought (NVIDIA GeForce GT 120)

If any recommendations are around please acknowledge.
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Antonio Chagin
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« Reply #108 on: November 12, 2012, 06:21:58 PM »
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Well, aside from the problems we all want to address and that should be done in an informative way without harsh connotations, comprehensive of the fact that we all are going to benefit from the updates that they are going to generate, I'm very happy with the results I'm getting as a new user of the software.
The colors, tonality and ease of handling the files, makes it as a great investment.
Actually I found myself converting old files again with a new perspective.



I'm planing to install a USB3 card in my Mac Pro and a better GPU than the one that it brought (NVIDIA GeForce GT 120)

If any recommendations are around please acknowledge.

Get rid of Apple first. Then get a monitor that supports 10-bit color depth if you don't own one. BTW, OSX does not support 10-bit output.
http://www.imagescience.com.au/kb/questions/152/10+Bit+Output+Support
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Kitty
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« Reply #109 on: November 12, 2012, 07:17:15 PM »
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I'm planing to install a USB3 card in my Mac Pro and a better GPU than the one that it brought (NVIDIA GeForce GT 120)

If any recommendations are around please acknowledge.

I am using CalDigit USB3 + esata. Need to install their driver working fine.
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ACH DIGITAL
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« Reply #110 on: November 12, 2012, 07:40:36 PM »
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I am using CalDigit USB3 + esata. Need to install their driver working fine.

That's exactly the one that I'm looking at. My D800 uses USB3 and I think is a most. I haven't been able to use my camera tethered so far. It's ok for trying if you have time, but not when clients are waiting.
About the Video card, Phase support advise you need more GPU for using all the advantage of the software.
I just disable Open GL from preferences to see if I get better results.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 07:42:12 PM by ACH DIGITAL » Logged

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« Reply #111 on: November 14, 2012, 01:35:45 PM »
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It works. 

I picked the worse possible time to upgrade to 7 as I'm knee-deep in reviewing and processing the images from our 8-week trip.  I screw up by hitting the catalog button instead of sessions and took time out trying to figure out how to stop 7 from opening automatically if catalog mode.

With that fixed I just spent a little over an hour browsing the various new improvements beginning with the LCC functions.  Interesting selections for the lens and movements and found the LCC seems to be slightly faster; haven't tried the vignetting as yet.

All in all spent a couple fast hours kicking the tires and no outward problems.  I'm running this on my Dell T7500 dual 6 core 3.47GHz and a paltry 96GB RAM with a NVIDA NVS 450 and dual Dell 30" monitors.  I also still have 6 active on my system and got a new license for 7.

Heck of a lot of new stuff to learn and I'll be following this thread with interest.  Thanks for all the valuable information so far.



Don
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KevinGSaunders
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« Reply #112 on: November 28, 2012, 05:49:00 PM »
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Hi Doug,

I have been asking this question for days and have no luck in either the C1 forum here or on the Phase Forum. I have an Aptus 75s and a Rollei X-Act2 with Schneider lenses. I can take a test shot while tethered to my PC laptop and analyse it for an LCC. Applying that LCC to other images is very difficult. When I shoot to the CF card and then import into C1-7, I get the error stating that this variant is not able to be analyzed.

As such I am back on C1-6 as I have found the LCC thing to be worse than worthless. I would greatly appreciate some of your wisdom and direction here!
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lkuhlmann
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« Reply #113 on: November 29, 2012, 12:03:13 PM »
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Get rid of Apple first. Then get a monitor that supports 10-bit color depth if you don't own one. BTW, OSX does not support 10-bit output.
http://www.imagescience.com.au/kb/questions/152/10+Bit+Output+Support

If you look for a nice GPU speedup, price and power matters a lot.

The best card you can buy today is the AMD 5870 for Mac Pro. Using a 6 core Mac Pro, I estimate you will get a 2x speedup in processing and get an almost fluent slider feedback.

-Lionel
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lkuhlmann
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« Reply #114 on: November 29, 2012, 12:08:00 PM »
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I have to check with the Dev team (or maybe Grover knows for sure off-hand) but I don't believe viewing at 100% leverages Open CL.

Here are two articles I authored that might help. I have not (yet) updated them specifically for v6.
Computer Upgrades
Speeding Capture One

Those articles are fairly comprehensive - glad to answer any questions that come up from those. But if you're looking for more than that you're probably in the range of one of our Capture One Training Options (likely the POCP or COMP programs).

Though as full disclosure I don't do much keeping track of hardware configurations for Windows. So can't promise any fine-grain advice there.

Generally speaking Open CL came into play in C1v6 (most adjustments) and has been expanded into more areas (processing) in v7 and I expect it will continue to be expanded (e.g. maybe some of the areas where it can't help will be expanded).

Depending on WHY you are zooming in, you may find a dedicated focus window, using the associated focus cursor is better for visual continuity and faster. You may also find the loupe tool useful. If you are zooming in to visually inspect large areas of the image or do careful masking you will find neither of those suggestions useful. If you are zooming in to check focus on a specific subject area you may find them much better than zooming the entire window (which renders a much larger area of the image than the other two approaches and is therefore inherently slower). You may find focus mask useful depending on the shooting environments and subject matter you handle; it's especially effective for scheimflug movements and shallow DOF shots.

I can easily make your Capture One experience better:

1. Get a multicore Mac Pro, 2xCPU
2. As large as possible SSD disk, as system disk, and preferable as raw file - disk as well
3. 16GB RAM or more
4. An AMD 5870 graphics card (2GB RAM), or an NVidia k5000 card

Not cheap - but really good.

For Windows go with the high end AMD 7970 or NVidia GTX680

-Lionel
 
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MamiyaZdUser
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« Reply #115 on: December 20, 2012, 05:58:01 PM »
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Sorry, version 7 and 7.0.1 are full of bugs, slow performance and hangs.

For performance reasons I update to 7.01, and now I have this error for the D800E file (only some of them, depend on the camera profile they photo with)

"The fim curve for d800e standard ...was not found"

I notice I am not the only one.
http://forum.phaseone.com/en/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=13537

Anyway, ACR give much better performance with a better colors and details in my opinion.

Phase one should really work on the .NET performance, this is not the way a program should behave on a 12 GIG i7 machine.
I think this version has the worst performance of any version I had of C1.
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« Reply #116 on: December 20, 2012, 08:10:30 PM »
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After using Capture 7.0 and 7.0.1 since release.
I found there are some problems which some very annoying.

Normally we shoot tethering to Macbook Pro OS 10.6.8.
After finishing session job all files will be copy through file sharing ethernet to another Mac Pro 6 cores OS 10.7.4 which connected to Raid 5 HDD.
We use this Mac Pro develop all the files.
Problem are

1. If files apply b&w adjustment it won't process by Mac Pro. I have to use Macbook pro process it. But with normal color it works fine.
2. P45+ files process super fast 18-19 files/min. P65+ and IQ160 is not only 4 files/min.

I don't know what is the cause. But I hope phase one knows and will fix it very soon.
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