Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Nikon D800 +AF-S 85/1,4 with heavy CA at f/1,4  (Read 3272 times)
Bernd B.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« on: November 01, 2012, 05:54:21 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

I posted this in another thread yesterday:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=71017.180

Now Erik Kaffehr encourages me to post it again here.

I made a test with the D800 of fellow photographer Ulrich (the guy on the picture) using my 85/1,4 AF-S at f/1,4, 1/2500th, ISO 100.







The hand had a heavy orange CA and the grey shirt suffered from purple fringing, turning it into a magenta tint.

I was advised by Erik to use the tools for removing fringing and CA in LR and after that it looked like this:









Purple fringing on the shirt was reduced to an acceptable extend, but the CA above the hand was still visible, even though it had less saturation. Erik suggested to move the hue slider, but that caused side effects like the desaturation of parts of the hand.

I was also told at f/4 the effect will have been gone, but thats not the point. I always used the maximum aperture of my lenses for a pleasing background rendition. Using the HC 150 (and other lenses like 80/2,8, 100/2,2, 210/4 and 300/4,5) at maximum aperture on my H3D39 causes some purple fringing, but much much less and absolutely no CA.

So if Id buy a D800 to replace the Hasselblad from time to time in order to shoot a bit faster, more handheld and to carry less weight, what would be your suggestions for a quick and easy removal of the unwanted effects?

Currently I use a D700. Magnification at 12MP is much less, so the CA did not become visible.

Thanks,

Bernd  

« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 05:56:29 AM by Bernd B. » Logged
kers
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 789


WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2012, 06:46:37 AM »
ReplyReply

I guess it shows that a 36MP sensor needs very good lenses.. the MPs outgrow the quality of the lenses...
It is time for Nikon to built a new league of lenses made for 36mp+... with very fast autofocus if they can. ( as fast as the 70-200)
The non autofocus lenses will be covered by Zeiss..
so let them start with a good 50mm, because they simply do not have any good one... there best 50mm costs less then 400€ (?!)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 06:48:11 AM by kers » Logged

Pieter Kers
www.beeld.nu
mac_paolo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 424


« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2012, 07:10:41 AM »
ReplyReply

Bernd,
honestly using wide aperture lenses always at maximum aperture is usually wrong. It's know that not so many great lenses are great even at widest apertures.
For a 36 MP sensor that LoCa is not that extreme to me.
You may just need to set an overall value, as you did, and take a local adjustment brush with high defringe control to minimize the issue.
Again, can't find nothing outrageous on that hand.

I'm not a MF shooter, so I can't tell anything about MF lenses always used at maximum apertures.

Just my 2 cents...
Logged
Bernd B.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2012, 07:48:55 AM »
ReplyReply

I guess it shows that a 36MP sensor needs very good lenses.. the MPs outgrow the quality of the lenses...
It is time for Nikon to built a new league of lenses made for 36mp+... with very fast autofocus if they can. ( as fast as the 70-200)
The non autofocus lenses will be covered by Zeiss..
so let them start with a good 50mm, because they simply do not have any good one... there best 50mm costs less then 400 (?!)

OK, sounds like a joke to me .... In 2009 using the D700 I replaced my 85/1,4 AIS for an 85/1,4 AF-D for 1.200,- EUR. Last year I sold the AF-D on ebay for 700,- EUR to buy the AF-S for 1.500,- EUR. Just to find out it is useless with 36MP?

For my Hasselblad HC 150/3,2 I payed EUR 1.000,- sh and it is simply stunning. I do not even see the reason why to upgrade to Version II.
Same with the HC 2,8/80, which is perfectly sharp at any aperture and gives pleasant bokeh. No comparison to the poor 50/1,4 AF-S.

In the end MF seems to be cheaper ....

Bernd
Logged
RFPhotography
Guest
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2012, 07:49:56 AM »
ReplyReply

I'm not seeing anything egregious on the hand either.  

Logged
Bernd B.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2012, 08:10:27 AM »
ReplyReply

Bernd,
honestly using wide aperture lenses always at maximum aperture is usually wrong. It's know that not so many great lenses are great even at widest apertures.
For a 36 MP sensor that LoCa is not that extreme to me.
You may just need to set an overall value, as you did, and take a local adjustment brush with high defringe control to minimize the issue.
Again, can't find nothing outrageous on that hand.

I'm not a MF shooter, so I can't tell anything about MF lenses always used at maximum apertures.

Just my 2 cents...

Go and tell Bruce Weber: "Dear Mr. Weber, honestly ....." Tell it to Hans Feurer, too. To Peter Lindbergh. And all the others....

Why buying expensive lenses, if they dont do their job properly? And why does it work with my Hasselblad HC lenses?

Bernd
Logged
kers
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 789


WWW
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2012, 08:41:49 AM »
ReplyReply

Bernd,
Tell me how much costs a basic 2,8 80mm Hasselblad lens...
about double .. and it is easier to make...
so there you have it.
Logged

Pieter Kers
www.beeld.nu
mac_paolo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 424


« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2012, 09:10:53 AM »
ReplyReply

Go and tell Bruce Weber: "Dear Mr. Weber, honestly ....." Tell it to Hans Feurer, too. To Peter Lindbergh. And all the others....
"Usually" means not in any single case.
Some kind of shots may revel a severe issue, others won't. Maybe it's just a faulty lens. Maybe moving/tilting a little would have reduced the effect.
You showed a shot, maybe thousands of other shots didn't produce any severe CA.
What are you exactly trying to get from this thread? What's your point?

Again, MF lenses are different on many aspects, and price reflects that.
Logged
Bernd B.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2012, 09:49:26 AM »
ReplyReply


You showed a shot, maybe thousands of other shots didn't produce any severe CA.
What are you exactly trying to get from this thread? What's your point?


Yes, you are right. It is just a single shot from a 20min. test. So lets hope it was just the coincidences.

What Im trying to get here is: for me shooting MF and processing the files in Phocus and Photoshop has always been more effort than using my D700. Many jobs I did with the D700 I completely processed in LR without doing anything in Photoshop afterwards. My hope with the D800 was to get the easy workflow I have with my D700 but with the resolution of my H3D39. This dream comes to an end when there are problems that cant be solved in LR and would require Photoshop again.

So my question is: did I miss something in LR? Is there another tool to come by this "LoCA Longitudional Chromatic Aberration" even if it is that strong? Or if there is no other tool, than the one next to lens profiles: did it use it correctly?



Thats it.

Thanks anyway,

Bernd

« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 09:56:30 AM by Bernd B. » Logged
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7926


WWW
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2012, 03:20:59 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

My take on the issue is that what you see is longitudinal chromatic aberration, also know as color bokeh. It is one of the the classic aberration. Unfortunately almost all large aperture lenses suffer from it. The only exceptions I know of are not really large aperture. It affects the Zeiss Sonnars, Leica S2 lenses with very, very few exceptions. The high resolution of the D800 enhances the perception of the aberration, but it is always there.

Why HC lenses don't show this? A few reasons:

1) There are no f/1.4 HC-lenses

2) Digital backs for the H-system do not have a physical resolution even close to the D800

3) Well possible that the H-lenses are better corrected.

This aberration cannot be fixed in raw conversion just hidden.

Best regards
Erik


Yes, you are right. It is just a single shot from a 20min. test. So lets hope it was just the coincidences.

What Im trying to get here is: for me shooting MF and processing the files in Phocus and Photoshop has always been more effort than using my D700. Many jobs I did with the D700 I completely processed in LR without doing anything in Photoshop afterwards. My hope with the D800 was to get the easy workflow I have with my D700 but with the resolution of my H3D39. This dream comes to an end when there are problems that cant be solved in LR and would require Photoshop again.

So my question is: did I miss something in LR? Is there another tool to come by this "LoCA Longitudional Chromatic Aberration" even if it is that strong? Or if there is no other tool, than the one next to lens profiles: did it use it correctly?



Thats it.

Thanks anyway,

Bernd


Logged

John Caldwell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 473



« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2012, 05:52:01 PM »
ReplyReply

What print size would be needed before this aberration would be visible?

John Caldwell
Logged
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7926


WWW
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2012, 12:11:19 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

That is a good question, note that there is also a lot of green cast on the fence in the background, which we have not addressed. The green cast would be visible for sure.

Sharpness is pretty impressive, by the way, for a f/1.4 shot with LR4.2 default sharpening. The camera is a D800 not a D800E so it is OLP filtered. Impressive!

Best regards
Erik

What print size would be needed before this aberration would be visible?

John Caldwell
Logged

mac_paolo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 424


« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2012, 02:15:18 AM »
ReplyReply

If you don't mind, send me a DNG conversion so that I could try a quick fix.
I don't quite like speaking of something I can't have in my hands Smiley
Logged
mac_paolo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 424


« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2012, 06:35:28 AM »
ReplyReply

Here is what I got by manually setting the CA sliders and painting a bit of defringe removal on CA borders.
Open it at 1:1...

Logged
mac_paolo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 424


« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2012, 06:49:55 AM »
ReplyReply

Left side:

Logged
JohnBrew
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 759


WWW
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2012, 07:18:08 AM »
ReplyReply

Bernd, that pixel peeping will get you in trouble Grin. Seriously, the 85 1.4G is the best lens I have for my D800. The only time I've had any purple fringing is shooting towards the sun with a lot of bright highlights (in particular rapids in a river). At f2 and smaller, the 85 is pretty incredible.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 07:23:36 AM by JohnBrew » Logged

Bernd B.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2012, 07:31:58 AM »
ReplyReply

WOOW, Paolo, you made it!!!  Smiley

Now Im trying to find the tool to paint CA removal instead of applying it globally....  Roll Eyes I thought the LR correction brush was only lighter, darker, contrast, tint and so on .... OK, I realized "remove moir" but below that is "rand entfernen" in German. Is this the tool you used?

Thanks a lot!

Bernd



P.S.: Maybe I should have read Eriks link a bit more carefully:

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2012/04/new-color-fringe-correction-controls.html
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 08:31:31 AM by Bernd B. » Logged
mac_paolo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 424


« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2012, 01:27:51 PM »
ReplyReply

WOOW, Paolo, you made it!!!  Smiley

Now Im trying to find the tool to paint CA removal instead of applying it globally....  Roll Eyes I thought the LR correction brush was only lighter, darker, contrast, tint and so on .... OK, I realized "remove moir" but below that is "rand entfernen" in German. Is this the tool you used?

Thanks a lot!

Bernd
You're welcome Smiley
Actually I use Lightroom in english because italian localization is... well... uhm... questionable? Smiley
It's the last one, so I'd say yes.
I set it on +100 (and you can stack several brushes to add effect) and carefully painted on magenta lines, then removed the skin alone using automask on the hand edge.
Remember not to treat the CA eyedropper tool as the Gospel. It's often good on a first try but for these case you really have to set the sliders manually.

For this very photo I globally set:


Paolo
Logged
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad