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Author Topic: Clear advantage and disadvantage.  (Read 2938 times)
Yanick Dery
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« on: November 02, 2012, 08:03:09 AM »
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I know there is a lot of information on the web, and if we search we can find everything. That said, I didn't find a recent post where it is clear to see the difference on every system. The goal is not to debate about anything but post a list of pros and cons on the different options on the market in 2012+.


here is couple of things interesting to know.


- USB 3.0 - Working or not working, the location of the cable on the back, etc.
- Tethering - Possible with a card in the back or not.
- Frame rate + Frame per minute - Tethered or on cards.
- ISO range
- Sensor size
- Price
- Service
- Rental
- Long term value
- etc.


I would love to understand the value of the H5D over the H4D in bullet point... I don't get it. It will process in-camera Jpeg at a premium price, but other than that, what the back has to offer? If you look at the difference in price of the H4D-40 to H5D-40 (2000$) and the H4D-60 to H5D-60 (13000$), there is something I don't understand...

Please, I would love to keep this post as clean as possible with bullet points.

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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2012, 08:16:21 AM »
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Is this meant to include the quality, flexibility, frequency of updates (e.g. when a new OS is released), speed, and features set of the software?

Is this meant to include the feature set, build quality, extensibility, backward compatibility, lens compatibility, lens quality, operational speed, autofocus accuracy, autofocus features, etc of the SLR body?

Is this meant to include system interoperability like being able to use your back or body with other backs/bodies (for backup, upgrades, replacement), or the ability to easily use your back on a technical camera or view camera?

Is this meant to include warranty length, service locations, service durations, warranty frills like loaner?

Is it meant to include the honesty, responsiveness, knowledgeability, offerings of training, ability to rent-towards-purchase as a trial from your preferred dealer?

Is it meant to include list pricing, street pricing, generosity of past upgrade programs and likelihood of continuing upgrade programs, cost of accessories?

As you can see a comprehensive comparison is actually very hard. Especially when the other half (and I would say a full half) of the equation is "do you like it" (e.g. does it fit in your hands? is it easy/intuitive for you to operate?)
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FredBGG
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2012, 09:36:48 AM »
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If you look at the difference in price of the H4D-40 to H5D-40 (2000$) and the H4D-60 to H5D-60 (13000$), there is something I don't understand...

Please, I would love to keep this post as clean as possible with bullet points.



I think that this cost difference is more about Hasselblad's financial problems than improvements in the camera.
I think that the cost increase is what it will take to keep Hasselblad afloat with the diminishing number of MF sales.
This is even more the case seeing the tremendous failure of the launch of the Lunar luxury compact.

Regarding Hasselblad service. Here in the US it is excellent. Even repairs on out of production legacy lenes (eg. Hasselblad 110mm f2)
are quick and well executed. The repairs I have done were all carried out in 3 to 4 days in the shop.

Rental. You'll find Hasselblad H is the prevalent MF rental camera in the fashion cities world wide.

Regarding tethering.... Hasselblad made a nice move with a tethering plug-in for Lightroom.

Long term value. In pure dollar amounts.... a quick look at what Hasselblad H cameras go for on ebay is a good indication. Look at completed listings.
Not to get into a big format discussion, but how Carl Zeiss's new line of lenses perform on D800 cameras may have quite an effect on how MF cameras hold their
value in particular for the types sizes fashion is published at. I personally have opted for 35mm digital and film in larger formats... as well as direct to paper,
but I'm an oddball.

I took a look at your website. Beautiful work!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 09:53:19 AM by FredBGG » Logged
Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2012, 09:56:08 AM »
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I know there is a lot of information on the web, and if we search we can find everything. That said, I didn't find a recent post where it is clear to see the difference on every system. The goal is not to debate about anything but post a list of pros and cons on the different options on the market in 2012+.


here is couple of things interesting to know.


- USB 3.0 - Working or not working, the location of the cable on the back, etc.
- Tethering - Possible with a card in the back or not.
- Frame rate + Frame per minute - Tethered or on cards.
- ISO range
- Sensor size
- Price
- Service
- Rental
- Long term value
- etc.


I would love to understand the value of the H5D over the H4D in bullet point... I don't get it. It will process in-camera Jpeg at a premium price, but other than that, what the back has to offer? If you look at the difference in price of the H4D-40 to H5D-40 (2000$) and the H4D-60 to H5D-60 (13000$), there is something I don't understand...

Please, I would love to keep this post as clean as possible with bullet points.




Hi Yanick -

I'll do my best with bullet points. First, your question about the H5D, the following improvements/enhancements were made from the H4D model:

*True Focus II
  - Adds knowledge of and compensation for lens curvature

*In-Camera JPG
  - Provides 10MP/12MP/15MP JPG for H4D-40/50/60 In-Camera

*New Buttons & Top LED Display
  - Improved ergonomically and better weather sealing

*Enhanced Style & Look
  - I like, kind of like comparing an early titanium version MBP to the current Retina model

*Immediate Focus Confirmation
  - Access 100% zoom without having to interface with the rear LCD

*New Battery Grip
  - 3mm Longer, roughly same power output on H5D, provides 50% more power on previous models

*New reinforced CF Card Door
  - Feels much more secure

*New secure locking firewire port
  - Reinforced, more secure, less stress on connector

*New GUI for LCD & LED Interfaces
  - Also includes further control of LCD from the LED interface

*Dedicated Profiles Button
  - Can upload and share custom user worksets from camera to camera

I would also point out that the H4D-60 listed at $39,995 until the summer when Hasselblad reduced pricing across the board in anticipation of new models from the upcoming Photokina. It was an opportunity to purchase existing product at a reduction. The H5D-60 was released with the same standard pricing as the H4D-60. The amount of the discounted pricing was more extreme on the H4D-60, and my thought is that the H4D-40 has been a more successful model - in terms of unit sales - than the H4D-60. And at the $39K range, a more aggressive reduction is required to move units in anticipation of new models than is needed for adjusted pricing in the $17K range.

One slight bit of editorializing - many outstanding products today take evolutionary leaps, rather than revolutionary ones. Apple is a prime example of this with the iPhone 5.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration


« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 11:43:24 AM by Steve Hendrix » Logged

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MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475
Yanick Dery
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2012, 10:46:58 AM »
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Is this meant to include the quality, flexibility, frequency of updates (e.g. when a new OS is released), speed, and features set of the software?

Is this meant to include the feature set, build quality, extensibility, backward compatibility, lens compatibility, lens quality, operational speed, autofocus accuracy, autofocus features, etc of the SLR body?

Is this meant to include system interoperability like being able to use your back or body with other backs/bodies (for backup, upgrades, replacement), or the ability to easily use your back on a technical camera or view camera?

Is this meant to include warranty length, service locations, service durations, warranty frills like loaner?

Is it meant to include the honesty, responsiveness, knowledgeability, offerings of training, ability to rent-towards-purchase as a trial from your preferred dealer?

Is it meant to include list pricing, street pricing, generosity of past upgrade programs and likelihood of continuing upgrade programs, cost of accessories?

As you can see a comprehensive comparison is actually very hard. Especially when the other half (and I would say a full half) of the equation is "do you like it" (e.g. does it fit in your hands? is it easy/intuitive for you to operate?)

Yes, but in simple short lines that will make it easy to understand and compare.
I am not interested in opinion, only fact, right to the point.

Thank you  Wink
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Gigi
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2012, 03:12:32 PM »
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are you dreaming? Here's some facts:

a) do your own research, please
b) if not, find a dealer you trust, and rely on them
c) if none of the above, use DSLRs (more common and less troublesome).
d) if you want to use this forum, do some homework first.

I'm sorry if this comes off rude, but your questions are so broad in scope, so general in character and so specific in your expectations, that they cannot be filled.
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Geoff
Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2012, 03:18:26 PM »
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I have only one bullet point:

* new eyecup

 Wink
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Slobodan

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Yanick Dery
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2012, 03:30:18 PM »
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Hi Yanick -

I'll do my best with bullet points. First, your question about the H5D, the following improvements/enhancements were made from the H4D model:

*True Focus II
  - Adds knowledge of and compensation for lens curvature

*In-Camera JPG
  - Provides 10MP/12MP/15MP JPG for H4D-40/50/60 In-Camera

*New Buttons & Top LED Display
  - Improved ergonomically and better weather sealing

*Enhanced Style & Look
  - I like, kind of like comparing an early titanium version MBP to the current Retina model

*Immediate Focus Confirmation
  - Access 100% zoom without having to interface with the rear LCD

*New Battery Grip
  - 3mm Longer, roughly same power output on H5D, provides 50% more power on previous models

*New reinforced CF Card Door
  - Feels much more secure

*New secure locking firewire port
  - Reinforced, more secure, less stress on connector

*New GUI for LCD & LED Interfaces
  - Also includes further control of LCD from the LED interface

*Dedicated Profiles Button
  - Can upload and share custom user worksets from camera to camera

I would also point out that the H4D-60 listed at $39,995 until the summer when Hasselblad reduced pricing across the board in anticipation of new models from the upcoming Photokina. It was an opportunity to purchase existing product at a reduction. The H5D-60 was released with the same standard pricing as the H4D-60. The amount of the discounted pricing was more extreme on the H4D-60, and my thought is that the H4D-40 has been a more successful model - in terms of unit sales - than the H4D-60. And at the $39K range, a more aggressive reduction is required to move units in anticipation of new models than is needed for adjusted pricing in the $17K range.

One slight bit of editorializing - many outstanding products today take evolutionary leaps, rather than revolutionary ones. Apple is a prime example of this with the iPhone 5.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration




Thank you Steve!  Wink
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Yanick Dery
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2012, 04:03:09 PM »
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Leaf Aptus 17
- Inexpensive, smaller sensor size, limited usable ISO range (slower shutter speeds)

Leaf Aptus 22
- Larger sensor size, limited usable ISO range (slower shutter speeds)

Phase One P21
- Smaller sensor size, expanded usable ISO range (faster shutter speeds)

Phase One P25
- Larger sensor size, moderate usable ISO range

Hasselblad CF22
- Larger sensor size, moderate usable ISO range

Imacon iXpress 132C
- Larger sensor size, limited usable ISO range, requires cabled portable hard drive

Sinar 54LV
- Larger sensor size, limited usable ISO range


Steve Hendrix
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yaya
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2012, 03:03:17 AM »
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Yanick from the topic it's not clear what are you looking for....also "options in the market in 2012+" is a bit broad...

Your opening post suggests that you'd specifically like to compare the H5D to the H5D, but then you mention USB3.0....

Technical specs and product images of all current and soon-to-be-available MF models exist on the manufacturers' websites. I think that's where you should start your research. It'll give you a good idea of things like cable positioning, connention types, frame rates, iso range etc.

You can put it all in One Excel sheet so that other members can make use of this information

BR

Yair
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e: ysh@leaf-photography.com | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | www.mamiyaleaf.com | yaya's blog
FredBGG
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2012, 12:08:52 PM »
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Yanick from the topic it's not clear what are you looking for....also "options in the market in 2012+" is a bit broad...

Your opening post suggests that you'd specifically like to compare the H5D to the H5D, but then you mention USB3.0....

Technical specs and product images of all current and soon-to-be-available MF models exist on the manufacturers' websites. I think that's where you should start your research. It'll give you a good idea of things like cable positioning, connention types, frame rates, iso range etc.

You can put it all in One Excel sheet so that other members can make use of this information

BR

Yair

Does USB 3
work with Credo or IQ backs?
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David Watson
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2012, 06:11:18 PM »
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As a Hasselblad user (currently H4D-60) I can say with certainty IMO that on a pure value for money set of criteria the following applies:

Best value for money (lowish budget) if very large prints are not required - H3D-II-39 with a lowish actuation count.  Terrific camera with beautiful colour.

Best value for money and larger prints required - H4D-50 (ditto low actuation count).  You get Truefocus and can utilise the full frame of the excellent HCD wide angle lenses.

Upgrade to an H5D - this is a no brainer as the added value is minuscule - mostly cosmetic changes  and same sensors as H4D

Money no object (but still being sensible) and no need for 24 or 28m lenses - a late used H4D60 at half the price of an H5D-60
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