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Author Topic: Difference between h3dii-50 and the h4d-50  (Read 1708 times)
Emilmedia
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« on: November 05, 2012, 05:24:56 AM »
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So i still havent decided on what system to go for. I'm getting a P65+ loaner from the kind people at Digital Transitions this week. But i wonder what is the difference between the h3dii50 and the h4d-50? Just the screen and faster focusing? Or is it a new sensor?
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Richard Naismith
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2012, 05:42:30 AM »
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True Focus is an important difference. It's used for close up work.
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Emilmedia
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2012, 04:07:48 PM »
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Is it the same sensor?
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torger
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2012, 04:31:16 PM »
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As far as I can see both are using the Kodak (now truesense imaging) KAF-50100:

http://www.truesenseimaging.com/products/full-frame-ccd/64-KAF-50100

there might be some change to the IR filter in front of the sensor, and might be some change in electronics which might improve image quality despite the same sensor, but if so probably very subtle. You can make big differences in long exposure by better cooling etc, but I don't think Hasselblad is into that. Sensor tech don't change often in the MF world. The IQ160 has the same sensor as your P65+ loaner for example.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2012, 05:21:33 PM »
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Yes, same sensor, as Torger mentions, there are times when the IR Filter is changed with a newer generation model of the same sensor - not sure if this happened from H3D-II to H4D (I'm thinking it did not, but unconfirmed). Otherwise, the differences are:

*3" LCD @ 460K - double the resolution (a critical difference from 230K)
*True Focus Version I
*AF Assist Light
*Enhanced Read/Write performance to take advantage of Extreme Pro CF Cards

The price difference is roughly $4,500 (depending on which individual unit) between the refurbished H3D-II 50 and H4D-50 units we have available for sale. For studio/manual focus use, the H3D-II 50 is a good value.

In case some didn't know, we're now fully authorized Hasselblad dealers. We are about a week away from launching full content on our website for Hasselblad information, but are actively selling and supporting Hasselblad as we speak.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
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MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
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Nick-T
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2012, 07:38:58 PM »
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Interesting times eh Steve?

Nick-T
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Dustbak
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2012, 02:35:57 AM »
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Yeah, I was already wondering about the message in some of the posts but that does make sense now Smiley
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KLaban
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« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2012, 07:02:32 AM »
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In case some didn't know, we're now fully authorized Hasselblad dealers.

And there was I thinking that you had just grown to love the Hasselblad product  Grin
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2012, 08:37:07 AM »
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So i still havent decided on what system to go for. I'm getting a P65+ loaner from the kind people at Digital Transitions this week.

Glad we were able to arrange this for you.

Make sure to try out and evaluate:
- Build quality, reliability, and operational speed/simplicity of the digital back
- Capture One 7 for both tethered/untethered shooting and post processing
- Sensor+ for faster shooting, higher ISO, smaller files
- Flash sync at up to 1/1600th
- performance in very cold weather (I know that's important to you)
- performance at 20-40 seconds which will be important when there isn't much sunlight
- look of skin color with and without work in post

In your colder environment, and using Capture One 7, do a few test exposures at 40-80 seconds. With any digital back when you're going to long exposures use the lowest ISO possible and avoid shooting images immediately in-a-row (give it a short bit to dissipate the heat on the sensor from the previous exposure).

If you have any questions you know we'll be here for you! Happy shooting.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
Emilmedia
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2012, 02:15:29 PM »
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Is it just me or is it kinda wierd that theyve used the same sensor since the h3d-39 all the way to todays h5d-50? The cameras must have been sooo outstanding 8 years ago?
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Nick-T
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2012, 02:33:20 PM »
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Is it just me or is it kinda wierd that theyve used the same sensor since the h3d-39 all the way to todays h5d-50? The cameras must have been sooo outstanding 8 years ago?

Ummm the sensor in the H3D39 is a 39 MP sensor from Kodak The H5D50 also uses a Kodak sensor but it's a 50MP and umm different...
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torger
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2012, 03:05:29 PM »
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Is it just me or is it kinda wierd that theyve used the same sensor since the h3d-39 all the way to todays h5d-50? The cameras must have been sooo outstanding 8 years ago?

Well, actually they were. CCDs from ~2005 are still competitive, which make second hand options interesting if you don't need the improvements in LCDs and focusing and workflow speed.

The thing is that a CCD is a quite "dumb" light collection device, most electronics is around it. To some extent one could say that CCD is some sort of digital film, and one would not expect fast-paced development in film technology either.

A CMOS on the other hand has lots of magic stuff on board so we've seen lots of development in that sector. Back in 2005 CMOS image quality was quite mediocre,
so the gap in image quality between CMOS and CCD was really huge. Today it is not the same. CCDs have not stopped being good, but the best CMOS tech is now exceeding CCDs in many aspects.

Due to the current competition from CMOS I think MF has reached a point where a large part of customers will not really accept that also the next generation after IQ/Credo/H5 etc would use the same sensor again. So it will be interesting to see what the next MF generation will use. I would not be surprised if it will be the same sensors again though, because making a large CMOS to a small market is not an easy thing to do.

CCDs are much more all-around and work over several years (as we see), you can use them in science, astronomy, industrial, medical etc while CMOS tend to be more specialized and due to fast development not as long-lived, which leads up to a very tough economical equation, so I'm not sure any MF business today can pull it off. Maybe if all of them collaborate, or someone goes out of business (somehow Hasselblad comes into mind...) leaving a larger market to the remainder.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 03:13:29 PM by torger » Logged
David Watson
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2012, 04:36:37 PM »
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Yes, same sensor, as Torger mentions, there are times when the IR Filter is changed with a newer generation model of the same sensor - not sure if this happened from H3D-II to H4D (I'm thinking it did not, but unconfirmed). Otherwise, the differences are:

*3" LCD @ 460K - double the resolution (a critical difference from 230K)
*True Focus Version I
*AF Assist Light
*Enhanced Read/Write performance to take advantage of Extreme Pro CF Cards

The price difference is roughly $4,500 (depending on which individual unit) between the refurbished H3D-II 50 and H4D-50 units we have available for sale. For studio/manual focus use, the H3D-II 50 is a good value.

In case some didn't know, we're now fully authorized Hasselblad dealers. We are about a week away from launching full content on our website for Hasselblad information, but are actively selling and supporting Hasselblad as we speak.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Welcome to the Hasselblad family Steve.  Very sensible move enabling photographers to choose the system that suits them and to presumably easily migrate.  Wish  we had something similar in the UK.
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David Watson ARPS
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