Upgrading from Hasselblad H3D too....

[maxnardi]

Hi everyone,

i'm just thinking finally to upgrade my mf system (actually own a Hasselblad H3D22 + 80/2.8 + 50-110) and need some advice.

I contacted Hasselblad and Phase one here in Italy and did try (for short times) the two possible upgrades and here my doubt.

From your experience is it worth to swap now from Hassy to Phamiya?

I have some doubt in hasselbad as a brand.
Despite his great tradition i found Hassy now a bit too much conservative that make me suppose they are not in big business and make me worry on future...
Phase One on the other side seems to me a bit more innovative and dynamic that is a good thing but...

Actually i wish to upgrade my H3D due to bad autofocus, bad iso, bad lcd display.
H4D is a good improvement but Phase one has the edge on LCD and seems on high iso with Sensor+, autofocus really impressed me.

I wish my MF to be able to serve as a backup in fashion shows and to be usable in low light fashion and portrait shots so Phamiya seems to win but wish your opinion/suggestion.


Is Phase One sensor+ really a winner?
Is Mamiya autofocus realiable (front/back focusing) and performant in low light?

Any other consideration and suggestion?

Thanks a lot and good light

[evgeny]

Just a few thoughts:

Mamiya is an uncomfortable very heavy camera, especially comparing to H4D.
Mamiya has no True Focus, which works great on H4D.
Mamiya requires two types of batteries one for the body and another for digital back.
Mamiya has a fixed prism finder.

The H4D is a better choice.

[bcooter]

Take all of this with a grain of salt, because I haven't written the check yet, but last week we were at an LA dealer buying lighting and grip and I spent about 45 minutes playing around with a h4d40 and a leaf credo back on a phase camera.

This is non scientific not on set testing, just playing around with kinos and these two cameras.

Now, FWIW, my experience comes with a lot of years using my Contaxi and Leaf, Phase backs. 

The DF was a much better camera than I previously thought, felt good, easier to hold than the hasselblad and the autofocus was fast and equal to the hasselblad, though I could manually focus the hasselblad with 90% accuracy, not so easy with the DF.  The DF was kind of like a Canon viewfinder where it looks in focus but not exactly tack sharp.  Once again the DF  and Hasselblad autofocus is fast and accurate,  compared to my contax and p30 much faster, but not more accurate.

The Hasselblad is more compact, and though I'm not overwhelmed by the grip, the camera fits in the hand well (at least my hand) and overall seems more refined than the df with a much better viewfinder.

The one thing I don't like about the blad is the amazing noise of the mirror slap.  I know it can be put on a electronic lag where it effects the file less, but what a noise.

Using a Kino led with diffusion, I noticed the hasselblad 40 was about 1/2 to 2/3 of a stop brighter than the df with the leaf credo 40.   Now I didn't put any files in a computer, so I don't know if it was or wasn't the brightness of the lcds, but the hasselblad seemed have higher equal iso.

I liked the Leaf's interface, the hasselblad interface seemed on generation old but worked well.  The lcd's to me were a wash as the credo had more detail, but since both didn't employ noise reduction on the preview files both were very noisy and grainy, so to me the previews on both cameras are equal.

Now the real truth is writing the check.  Overall I like the Hasselblad body better, the ex kodak sensor better than the Leaf, though the Leaf back has a great interface, really well thought out.

When time permits, I'll rent both systems and use them on set in production, go through the complete workflow and then decide, because the only truth in any of these posts is if you actually buy.

BTW: I love the white/black look of the h5d.  That shouldn't matter, but I love the look of the camera.

IMO

BC

[David Watson]

Whilst I agree that the P1 backs are nice the "niceness" does not compensate for the sheer utility of the Hasselblad system.

1. All leaf shutter lenses - sync to 1/800
2. One battery - back integrated with body
3. Truefocus - brilliant and unmatched in the Phase system.
4. Excellent value for money as late used. H4D60 - around £14000. Try buying a P65 plus a 645D etc. for that money.

At the end of the day these systems are all very good.  But if you use flash a lot and do portraits, weddings or fashion Truefocus is a game changer.

[Steve Hendrix]

Take all of this with a grain of salt, because I haven't written the check yet, but last week we were at an LA dealer buying lighting and grip and I spent about 45 minutes playing around with a h4d40 and a leaf credo back on a phase camera.

This is non scientific not on set testing, just playing around with kinos and these two cameras.

Now, FWIW, my experience comes with a lot of years using my Contaxi and Leaf, Phase backs. 

The DF was a much better camera than I previously thought, felt good, easier to hold than the hasselblad and the autofocus was fast and equal to the hasselblad, though I could manually focus the hasselblad with 90% accuracy, not so easy with the DF.  The DF was kind of like a Canon viewfinder where it looks in focus but not exactly tack sharp.  Once again the DF  and Hasselblad autofocus is fast and accurate,  compared to my contax and p30 much faster, but not more accurate.

The Hasselblad is more compact, and though I'm not overwhelmed by the grip, the camera fits in the hand well (at least my hand) and overall seems more refined than the df with a much better viewfinder.

The one thing I don't like about the blad is the amazing noise of the mirror slap.  I know it can be put on a electronic lag where it effects the file less, but what a noise.

Using a Kino led with diffusion, I noticed the hasselblad 40 was about 1/2 to 2/3 of a stop brighter than the df with the leaf credo 40.   Now I didn't put any files in a computer, so I don't know if it was or wasn't the brightness of the lcds, but the hasselblad seemed have higher equal iso.

I liked the Leaf's interface, the hasselblad interface seemed on generation old but worked well.  The lcd's to me were a wash as the credo had more detail, but since both didn't employ noise reduction on the preview files both were very noisy and grainy, so to me the previews on both cameras are equal.

Now the real truth is writing the check.  Overall I like the Hasselblad body better, the ex kodak sensor better than the Leaf, though the Leaf back has a great interface, really well thought out.

When time permits, I'll rent both systems and use them on set in production, go through the complete workflow and then decide, because the only truth in any of these posts is if you actually buy.

BTW: I love the white/black look of the h5d.  That shouldn't matter, but I love the look of the camera.

IMO

BC

BC -

Was that a surprise to you? It was to me. When I first saw the online images, I wasn't sure it didn't look worse than its predecessor. But in person, what a difference. As I held it next to my MacBook Pro, I realized the symmetry, the same color scheme. It looks much better and now even has me feeling it compares favorably to the all black Fuji version. I think the new color scheme is appropriate to the design.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

[maxnardi]

Thank you all....


Wat about sensor+?
Phamiya actually as an edge in versatility i think: 1/1600 flash synch with lf schneider lenses or 1/4000 shutter speed using in camera shutter.
Combine it with dof control with a full range of f/2.8 lenses...

anyone can comment on sensor plus iq at high iso?

[bcooter]

BC -

Was that a surprise to you? It was to me. When I first saw the online images, I wasn't sure it didn't look worse than its predecessor. But in person, what a difference. As I held it next to my MacBook Pro, I realized the symmetry, the same color scheme. It looks much better and now even has me feeling it compares favorably to the all black Fuji version. I think the new color scheme is appropriate to the design.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

They say looks aren't suppose to matter, but let's face it they do and along with your reference to Apple, that company has made billions off of looks, so I wish Hasselblad well.

I haven't seen the H5d in person, but it looks modern and I do like the 40 sensor of that camera, so when it comes out, I will arrange for a test in our exact working conditions to try it out along with the software and workflow.

No camera is perfect, but lately we've used our medium format system in almost all of our work and plan to do so on the next two projects, one in L.A., the other in three cities and an additional two countries.

I'll admit, I have had great success with my Phase backs, especially in reliability, but as much as I love my Contax I'm think that it is close to the time to add a more modern medium format system, especially one with Leaf shutters.

I'll also admit I love the interface of the Leaf Credo, but when you look at the H5, the price, the added benefits of the lens system and the fact that H lenses are in rental everywhere, it warrants a hard look.

IMO

BC

[Doug Peterson]

Wat about sensor+?
Phamiya actually as an edge in versatility i think: 1/1600 flash synch with lf schneider lenses or 1/4000 shutter speed using in camera shutter.
Combine it with dof control with a full range of f/2.8 lenses...

Send me a PM or email and I can send you some sensor+ raws from whichever phase back you are considering. You can judge the quality for yourself in Capture One 7 :-).