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Author Topic: Leaf Credo USB 3  (Read 9420 times)
FredBGG
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« Reply #60 on: November 09, 2012, 11:58:54 AM »
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Oh and one more thing.
I don't lend my name to leaf or phase one.
I pay for my gear, I don't get paid for the images they use from me, I'm just a very enthusiastic user.  

I never implied that you were getting free gear or getting paid. Sorry if you understood it that way.

Lending you name to something means you give them the OK you use your name and your endorsement of the product.
It does not mean that you get paid for it.

You are correct about "doing the homework"..... it's just much easier when the information is clear, "honest" and accurate.
Doing your homework should not require correcting incomplete and inaccurate information on a prominent feature detailed on the website of the manufacturer.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 12:43:33 PM by FredBGG » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2012, 12:05:47 PM »
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I would love to be able to work with usb3 because the cables are less stiff and I fly a lot so everything I can save on space and weight is a big plus.



While USB 3 cables can be slimmer and less stiff they will not work very well with longer cables.
The most reliable USB3 cables are just as stiff as the good fire wire cables.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #62 on: November 09, 2012, 12:38:16 PM »
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I don't think it is OK to jump on any on these forums, just because you have some bad feelings about some product.

Best regards
Erik



Bad feelings?

I bought a DF system and had bad experience with multiple bodies.
It was a lot more than that. Camera freezes, focusing way below claimed performance, V-grip camera combination freezing randomly requiring un assembling camera, lens and grip to get things working again. Having to do this repeatedly in front of a client whose time is very very expensive is unacceptable to both the client and me.
I needed a very simple part from Phase one. The plastic plate with the alignment pins that keeps the v-grip and body aligned when mounted.
Without this the alignment would go out and the camera would freeze. It was a particular problem with longer lenses.
Neither Phase One USA, Mamiya USA or the LA dealer could come up with it after weeks of being bounced from one to the other.

So you think that it is not OK for a previous owner of a cameras system, he or she had major problems with, to be critical of the system on a public forum.
Actually outside of the immediate "fan base" of Phase/Leaf the caliber of my work and clients gives what I say quite a bit of credibility among many photographers
considering what type of camera to buy. I get many messages from prospective buyers thanking me. One even said that knowing about bugs and overstated claims helped him haggle a better price. Wink Seems helpful to me.

Due to the quality of high end DSLR cameras being virtually indistinguishable for 99% of print, advertising, catalog it really is getting easier and easier to tip the choice
in favor of 35mm systems.

These review do it nearly every time especially when the reader downloads the images and print them on high end printers that actually print better than the publications where their images are published.

http://www.circleofconfusion.ie/d800e-vs-phase-one-iq180/

http://www.photigy.com/nikon-d800e-test-review-vs-hasselblad-h4d40-35mm-against-medium-format/

« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 12:52:16 PM by FredBGG » Logged
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2012, 09:58:24 AM »
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Hi,

I feel it is OK to share bad experience. What I don't find OK is to jump on any individual sharing his/her experience.

I have read both your articles you quote, and also written my own: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/71-mf-digital-myths-or-facts

Best regards
Erik

Bad feelings?

I bought a DF system and had bad experience with multiple bodies.
It was a lot more than that. Camera freezes, focusing way below claimed performance, V-grip camera combination freezing randomly requiring un assembling camera, lens and grip to get things working again. Having to do this repeatedly in front of a client whose time is very very expensive is unacceptable to both the client and me.
I needed a very simple part from Phase one. The plastic plate with the alignment pins that keeps the v-grip and body aligned when mounted.
Without this the alignment would go out and the camera would freeze. It was a particular problem with longer lenses.
Neither Phase One USA, Mamiya USA or the LA dealer could come up with it after weeks of being bounced from one to the other.

So you think that it is not OK for a previous owner of a cameras system, he or she had major problems with, to be critical of the system on a public forum.
Actually outside of the immediate "fan base" of Phase/Leaf the caliber of my work and clients gives what I say quite a bit of credibility among many photographers
considering what type of camera to buy. I get many messages from prospective buyers thanking me. One even said that knowing about bugs and overstated claims helped him haggle a better price. Wink Seems helpful to me.

Due to the quality of high end DSLR cameras being virtually indistinguishable for 99% of print, advertising, catalog it really is getting easier and easier to tip the choice
in favor of 35mm systems.

These review do it nearly every time especially when the reader downloads the images and print them on high end printers that actually print better than the publications where their images are published.

http://www.circleofconfusion.ie/d800e-vs-phase-one-iq180/

http://www.photigy.com/nikon-d800e-test-review-vs-hasselblad-h4d40-35mm-against-medium-format/


« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 10:19:47 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

Don Libby
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« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2012, 11:07:24 AM »
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Erik, finally a non diatribe.  Just finished reading the article and found it compelling and backed up with facts not anecdotal information.

Thanks for the information.

Don
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2012, 02:26:21 PM »
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Don,

Thanks for the kind words!

Best regards
Erik


Erik, finally a non diatribe.  Just finished reading the article and found it compelling and backed up with facts not anecdotal information.

Thanks for the information.

Don

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FredBGG
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« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2012, 12:52:44 PM »
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From the article
Conclusion on noise in highlights & shadows

Unless some dramatic improvement happens in technology, dramatically increasing the FWC on small sensors, larger sensors will have an advantage in midtone noise.

Unless some dramatic improvement happens in technology, reducing the readout noise of large sensors, modern CMOS will have an advantage in the darks.

Findings

The IQ180 image has noisier shadows compared with the Nikon D800E image. The difference is visible in both actual pixels view and with the IQ180 image downscaled to D800E image dimensions.


However practical tests don't seem to confirm this at least when it comes to grey card testing. (upper mid tones)



It's also interesting that there is virtually no difference between the d600 and the d800 despite the difference in pixel size



Here is a comparisson between the D4 and the D800. Same generation cameras.
One with significantly larger photosites. The noise is practically identical.
The big pixel theories don't hold up.....

« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 10:36:50 PM by FredBGG » Logged
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #67 on: November 21, 2012, 12:05:41 AM »
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Hi,

Thanks for your observation. A few observations of my own:

1) The reasoning I made essentially ignores ISO, it is about capturing the best image and for that the sensor needs to be fully utilized.

2) It seems that MF backs have much lower quantum efficiency (QE) than DSLRs, so they need a lot more light.

3) So when I  compare curves from DxO I only look at the maximum values ignoring the fact that MF curves are shifted to the left, because of low QE.

4) I actually think that significant progress may have been made on full well capacity on DSLR sensors. The figures from sensorgen point in that direction, but I'm not sure those figures are correct, partly because they give different FWC for same sensor sitting in different cameras.

Anyway:
SensorMPFWC
Nikon D3X 2448975
Sony Alpha 9002426843 (note that the sensor is basically the same as in D3X)
Nikon D60024 76231


5) The fact that D800 and D600 are quite similar in 18% SNR is that they probably use the same technology. The D800 will capture the same amount of photons per surface area as the D600. FWC is probably proportional to pixel area. So the D800 simply gives better resolution at similar noise levels.  

6) The comparison I made was between the Phase One IQ180 and as I said I compared noise at lowest ISO where FWC is utilized fully.

In this case what I see is
Camera/BackISOSNR 18%
Hasselblad H3DII3945.3
Phase One IQ1802948.7
Nikon D8007346


I guess that the IQ180 has a sensor with better FWC than the one Hasselblad uses.

Another factor slightly favoring MFD may be that the sensor don't have OLP filters. The lack of OLP filtering is beneficial to sharpness, so MFD images need less sharpening. Sharpening tends to increase noise. The downside of not having OLP filtering is that it is easy to get fake detail. The D800E has removed OLP filtering, so it is a bit more similar to MFD.

Best regards
Erik



From the article
However practical tests don't seem to confirm this at least when it comes to grey card testing. (upper mid tones)



It's also interesting that there is virtually no difference between the d600 and the d800 despite the difference in pixel size



Here is a comparisson between the D4 and the D800. Same generation cameras.
One with significantly larger photosites. The noise is practically identical.
The big pixel theories don't hold up.....


« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 12:31:26 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

bradleygibson
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« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2012, 10:20:06 AM »
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FredBGG, be sure to set DxO to "Screen" if you are examining pixel quality.  Set to "Print", you are comparing results after they have been downsized to 8MP.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2012, 11:24:38 PM »
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While USB 3 cables can be slimmer and less stiff they will not work very well with longer cables.
The most reliable USB3 cables are just as stiff as the good fire wire cables.

I just want to add to this. You can actually use a thinner cable for the last 3 or 4 feet and connect to a rather stiffer
powered extension .... it's working for me.
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MrSmith
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« Reply #70 on: February 22, 2014, 03:39:18 AM »
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So will a leaf credo 40 ever tether over usb3?
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #71 on: February 22, 2014, 06:28:37 AM »
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So will a leaf credo 40 ever tether over usb3?

Already does. Has for many months.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
sbernthal
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« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2014, 02:17:38 AM »
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Can you charge it over USB3?
I could not get a straight answer from Leaf support.
Connecting the cable you see the charge sign, but the battery gets depleted.
They gave me an answer something like it theoretically can be charged if there was enough power, but would absolutely not say anything about what card to use to give that power.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2014, 06:50:29 AM »
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Can you charge it over USB3?
I could not get a straight answer from Leaf support.
Connecting the cable you see the charge sign, but the battery gets depleted.
They gave me an answer something like it theoretically can be charged if there was enough power, but would absolutely not say anything about what card to use to give that power.

With most ports and a short cable it will provide a maintenance charge.

For most styles of shooting this means you'll still deplete the battery, but it will last longer than if you were shooting untethered. For very slow shooting (e.g. Still life with large pauses between shots) it *might* charge faster than you deplete it.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
sbernthal
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« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2014, 06:54:26 AM »
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With FW cable the battery always gets charged.
With USB3 the battery never gets charged.
I am using a desktop PC with an on board (Asus P8B75-M LX PLUS) USB3 port.
It doesn't matter how much time I leave it connected with no shots, the battery gets depleted, and it doesn't do it with FW.
I am using an official 10' cable.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #75 on: February 23, 2014, 07:29:27 AM »
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With FW cable the battery always gets charged.
With USB3 the battery never gets charged.
I am using a desktop PC with an on board (Asus P8B75-M LX PLUS) USB3 port.
It doesn't matter how much time I leave it connected with no shots, the battery gets depleted, and it doesn't do it with FW.
I am using an official 10' cable.

I'd have to check the firmware logs to see if "maintence charge" hasn't been added to the latest credo firmware (it has been added on the latest IQ firmware). But I'll be quite busy this week. I'd suggest working with your value added dealer. Support is meant to come from them and not direct from team phase one who set up their support network primarily to support the dealers.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
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