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Author Topic: Hasselblad Trade-in problems  (Read 3496 times)
oyvindandersen
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« on: November 15, 2012, 11:29:50 AM »
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I was hoping to purchase a H5D-40 from the retailer using my H2 + viewfinder + CF-39 back as a trade-in, they say Hasselblad wouldn´t do that but if i had a simular digitalback from a competitor they could? Is this for real, i´ve been a Hblad user since 2000, purchased six H-lenses, HTS etc, a 503CWD Victor special + lenses, and now they want let me have the opportunity to upgrade? Anyone else experienced this?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 11:36:08 AM by oyvindandersen » Logged

Øyvind Andersen
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David Watson
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2012, 11:34:40 AM »
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the Hasselblad "trade-in" programme is very poor IMO.  If you ant my advice sell your existing kit on Ebay and buy a late used H4D-40.  May not be as pretty as the H5 but works just as well.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 12:02:57 PM »
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Trade in programs are generally bullshit.
Even when they offer a trade in it's against the list price of the new items, not the price you can get
when paying cash.
Mush better to sell your gear privately and then buy the new gear cash and haggle like crazy for a better price.

With the H5D you have the upper hand when it comes to haggling because it really is not really any different from the H4D

A like new H4D should not be too hard to find.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2012, 12:11:38 PM »
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Even when they offer a trade in it's against the list price of the new items, not the price you can get
when paying cash.
Mush better to sell your gear privately and then buy the new gear cash and haggle like crazy for a better price.

Making blanket statements like this are not informative.

This is most definitely not always the case. Sometimes it is (and we will specifically advise a customer when we feel it is; if a private sale would raise more money than it's worth in a trade-in that usually translates to a higher budget for their upcoming purchase so there is no downside for us). But often the bottom line does come down in favor of a manufacturer trade in even before taking into account the significant hassle and small risk of selling your gear privately.

The real-world decision between selling privately vs. doing a trade in is going to depend on what the market value of the back is, what mount it is (rare mounts+make combos are harder to sell privately), what condition it's in (the private market for backs with any visible wear and tear is much smaller than for EX and EX+ condition backs), and how new/recent the back is that you're trading up to (there's usually very little room for negotiation for backs in their first few quarters of availability, even for a no-holds-bar aggressive haggle-like-crazy cash buyer - which by the way is a poor way to develop a working relationship with a vendor whether your a photographer, art buyer, advertising agency, or otherwise), whether you have a reputation on a forum with which to back your sale or an eBay account with enough history/activity to garner proper value there, your geography (a US eBay back will usually fetch more than a back located e.g. in South Africa), and the desired turn around time on the sale (if you need the new back for a project in 2 weeks then a trade-in will always make sense).

It also matters a LOT what you have and will/won't need after your upgrade. For instance if he upgraded to a Phase One back he could keep the H2 body and continue to use it as his primary camera, and the 39% off an IQ160 he would get for the CFV would only require the trade-in of the CFV back itself. If he upgrades to a H5D-40 then the H2 body would be of no use to him (none of the HD series backs are compatible with other generations of the H series bodies) and he would have to sell it.

(my comments relate to Phase One's trade-in policy; don't have any experience with Hasselblad's).

When you work with a good dealer they can also do trade-ins and cross-trades and swaps that aren't officially provided by the manufacturer by leveraging their own network of customers and ability to sit on a back until the right match for it comes up.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 12:18:23 PM by Doug Peterson » Logged

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FredBGG
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2012, 12:24:46 PM »
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(rare mounts+make combos are harder to sell privately)

From what I have seen Contax mount digital backs sell well and quickly on ebay, crigslist etc.
If an item is rare it is also hard to find. Ebay makes it easy to reach a huge market.

There is a reason why Ebay is worth $60 billion Wink
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oyvindandersen
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2012, 12:36:44 PM »
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I´m considering going for a Phase One solution with a trade-in for the HBlad back to an IQ just for the reason that Hblad acting like this, it makes no sence they say they´ll do it if I had a Leaf, Sinar, Phase etc for trade-in!
Maybe I´ll even go the hole Phase One way, camera, lenses and so on.......
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Øyvind Andersen
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2012, 01:33:37 PM »
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From what I have seen Contax mount digital backs sell well and quickly on ebay, crigslist etc.
If an item is rare it is also hard to find. Ebay makes it easy to reach a huge market.

There is a reason why Ebay is worth $60 billion Wink

Believe it or not I do know a thing or two about the used market for digital backs.

The most easily sellable backs are backs that were not made in abundance (not popular at the time of their manufacturing) but are now in high demand. As there has been a gradual trend from V to H to M mount backs the older backs in the newer mounts are by far the easiest to sell: a P25+M in good condition will sell very quickly (low supply, high demand). C mounts are a market all on their own.

Anyway, I don't know what we're arguing about really. Just didn't like that you stated without any caveats that it's always better to sell your own gear than pursue a trade in. Sometimes that is good advice; sometimes it is awful advice. There are always several variables to consider.
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evgeny
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 03:42:49 PM »
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You can buy my Sinarback 54H that I sell on eBay, and add a not expensive MF camera to be eligible for trade-in, and also sell your Hasselblad for a much higher price than you hope to get in trade-in.

Approx a year ago I sold on eBay all my Contax 645 cameras and lenses instead of trade-in, and collected not less, probably a bit more, money than I originally invested in the Contax system.
My loss was only approx $2000 in the Leaf 65 back.  I was able to purchase the Hasselblad H4D without stressing my bank.
However a dealer may sometimes make a good offer.
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John.Williams
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2012, 06:40:41 PM »
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I will echo Doug Peterson's comments about the options offered by MF resellers - often, you will find flexible options regarding the sale or trade of your existing equipment for the desired equipment that is beyond the manufacturer's trade-in program.

Three important factors will govern your transaction;
  • What do you have
  • What do you want
  • When do you want to perform

Your equipment worth is what someone is willing to pay for it; in some cases, the manufacturer has a higher value for your equipment compared to a private sale - in many cases, you will typically receive higher value by spending time and effort to sell it yourself (although, that does take up hours of your life and that is worth different amounts to each person.)

An advantage of using a MF reseller is two-fold; you can avoid the effort to sell the equipment and the buyer can achieve a degree of vetting and liability by purchasing from an expert in the systems who can accurately represent the condition of the gear (compared to eager sellers who may overstate the actual condition.) Credit card as payment is another risk; do you really want to deal with the possibility of a chargeback for up to 6 months after the sale?

We have an online calculator for the Hasselblad USA trade-in program that you can use to make a comparison with other equipment valuations and have used Skype and iChat to show the condition of the equipment live - with this technology nearly commonplace, it is hard to argue against using it for your next purchase - new or used.

--- bottom line, it is a great time to consider all of your options for MF
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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2012, 11:04:53 PM »
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Digital Transitions is about as good as you can get from my experience dealing with them (Hasselblad H3Dii-39ms -> 645DF+IQ180).

Certainly the horrible trade in program from Hasselblad (and no trade in program from Leica) were what helped to push me to Phase. I was originally looking at it for a P65+ but then the IQ series was announced and I knew that I had to have that. Hasselblad does nothing for there customers in this situation and certainly economically it makes more sense to get a good percentage off of a Phase back especially since you can still be using it on your H2 with all of your lenses (like Doug said). Personally I just decided to fully commit to the new system (partially because H3D was a closed system) but also since it seemed to me that it was better to have a fully integrated work flow. Although Phase backs work perfectly on H cameras.
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JabariHunt
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2012, 12:30:56 AM »
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If you decide to sell your H2, please DM me!
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2012, 02:09:26 AM »
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Your CF-39 may do very well on the 2nd hand market or on ebay since it can be fitted to many different cameras.  Those were great backs.   Still since HB discontinued the CF backs, they may do you well in trade in.  HB directly made me a very good deal some years back when I bought my CFii-39MS. Have you tried calling them directly?
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John.Williams
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« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2012, 08:36:17 AM »
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Brian - sorry to hear you did not get a good conversation around your Hasselblad trade-in with Hasselblad - perhaps others can learn from your experience and reach out to a variety of experts -- including us -- to determine their options.

This topic is for Hasselblad trade-in, so I will not address the opinion of Hasselblad as a closed system - the capabilities of the Hasselblad system are abundant for nearly every photographic discipline rendering the open debate as an expired, old argument.

On a related note to your transaction, the multishot technology is hard to beat with any single shot comparison; no color interpolation and 4x the scene data yields a level of detail that is near the top of photographic capability. If you can translate that into business value to your clients, this is a definite differentiator for your revenue potential.

Also, if the goal is not revenue-oriented, rather - quality-oriented (an example is a private collector of fine art with a desire to create best reproduction), the quality from multishot is truly an advantage. By locating this kind of buyer, you may have been able to reach a satisfactory exchange for each of you.

To summarize, if you are in the market to trade/upgrade/sell your equipment, visit a few MF resellers who are experts in the systems to get a good idea of your options; some are manufacturer programs, some are trading on your own or hiring the reseller as an agent. Either way, you are able to factor more information into your decision versus less, and that is empowering.

Let's keep this topic on MF trade-in and related replies; if you need to address other issues, start a new topic or send me a private message.

John
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« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2012, 10:07:31 AM »
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Let's keep this topic on MF trade-in and related replies

John, chances are it'll turn into another D800-can-cook-you-breakfast-and-take-your-kids-to-school thread so just enjoy the moment and the handful of on-topic posts Wink
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2012, 12:43:09 PM »
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John, chances are it'll turn into another D800-can-cook-you-breakfast-and-take-your-kids-to-school thread so just enjoy the moment and the handful of on-topic posts Wink

Yair
Check the data sheets, the D800 will cook you breakfast (I know as I have one), but only the D800e (for education), will take them to school.

Nick-T
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Dustbak
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2012, 03:09:54 PM »
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Damn! I have one of those! That means I don't have to get up tomorrow morning... My life just got a bit easier Smiley
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