Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: iPad software for 4th grade "photo" workshop(s)? Need suggestions  (Read 1316 times)
jonathan7007
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« on: November 17, 2012, 01:52:07 PM »
ReplyReply

Hello All,
I am a long-time photographer (pro) and until recently upper elementary teacher. My last school offered me a chance to teach photography to the 4th and 5th kids, and they have a set of iPads(v3). These little workshops would have to be 40-minute sessions, and unfortunately spaced a week apart (I might take steps to cut that gap... doesn't work well for this age...)

I use an Android tablet so am a little out of the loop on iOS products.

These kids need to experience thinking and planning. Yes, there's a place for spontaneous shooting, but I am going to fit this into the same process that writing requires: an idea, first draft, critical eye, second draft, flexibility, more refinement, do it again. In other words, focus on the aesthetic process. So any "filters" (a la Instagram, etc.) are out -- at least at first. I will be using what are known as core standards, partly to fit this into "school" and partly to retain credibility and give the tiny program some clout and longevity if I should want to do it for a while. This underpinning is important to school administrators for good reason in today's environment.

Here's where I ask for help: I need a "walled garden" photo capture and display/edit app. I would LIKE to have their images iCloud out to my computer, or if the school is too nervous about that, a school server for eval and kid-image-management. I want no Internet use as part of this. On a purely iOS point, I need to avoid kids going over to games and other distraction offered on the platform. Student shoots five (whatever) images and sees them on the screen side-by-side. Picks one. That image flagged as choice, and they show me somehow what they choose and I get to talk for a second or so about the choice and if they met their goal. Might be story-telling where the "outcome" is five pix. I am still making sure I can DO this before I write the course/proposal. BTW, there would be 20-ish kids in the room! and generally speaking, they don't show patience with waiting for feedback. <grin>

Some schools have a very capable tech administrator who builds and/or sets up ad hoc environments like this for teachers but that is not the case in my rural environment here. I always used a lot of computer technology in my classroom so I feel comfortable with managing the kids and the gear together. (But that is a huge factor... means you proceed slowly and step by step.)

Who knows a site that concentrates on iPad or kid+iPad software? It's not strictly an education software issue, although I will be going back to some of the ed software forums (fora?) that I used to haunt.

Aloha from Hawaii,
jonathan7007
Logged
Justinr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1011


WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2012, 10:06:56 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi Jonathan

Just a thought but I do wonder if you are not trying to complicate matters a little here. I'm thinking that simply downloading the captured images into separate files, one for each child in something as simple as Windows might do the trick. May I ask just how the process is going to work? From what you have said I imagine it is something like this -

Pupil plans his shots.
Pupil captures his images
Pupil reviews his images
Pupil selects an image for final presentation.

I suppose it depends upon the facilities you have but I can't see the need to start bringing in specialist applications. Am I missing something?

Logged

jonathan7007
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 12:37:12 PM »
ReplyReply

Justin,
Thank you for your suggestions. You understand the learning steps I'll ask the to take -- I add direction, re-direction, and feedback to keep everyone on-track and learning.

I had to "start" the logistics planning around the iPads because the school has a set of them in a cart. No cameras available. The cart moves, I trust, as needed, and if on pattern this conveyance has the needed specialty charging distribution circuitry. This gives me the gear I need: a capture device, viewer, editor, and presentation device. No card readers, kids standing in line to get their images down/uploaded. No cameras available, anyway. It's public school and the kids can't bring a camera. There are some netbooks on another cart but the tech coordinator at this school is so overworked and the teachers so rushed that I am told it never arrives at its next stop with better than 50% of the netbooks charged enough to use. Welcome to schools nowadays: saving money -- staff --any possible way.). Sorry -- nascent rant.

These students will be 9 and 10-year-olds with no experience of photography or looking seriously at a picture, much less asked to articulate their thoughts about it. Most (85%) will NOT have handled an iPad -- ever. Many of them, when presented with something new or -- when unsure of the next step -- and not guided one-on-one -- will jump over to playing with the iPad (completely natural reaction for all ages, BTW). So I need three things:

-A guided (limited) path through a few steps
-Easy clear steps and transitions
-Time to practice the few steps (makes kids way more comfortable)

1. I think I found iPad software to provide what I call "guardrails". Someone (educator w/PhD in ed tech use for learning) wrote code to keep kids inside one iPad program in a classroom. I don't have the link right handy, but that is a crucial first step and I have to get permission to place this on all the iPads we'll use.
2. I have to write this out as a uber-lesson plan. It takes work. Not fun but important. Often changes though for "facts on the ground" in the classroom -- like a military campaign!
3. If the school will only let me do a couple of sessions this will just be elaborate tech-distracted babysitting. I will change their mind or not do it!

For this project I am a teacher first, photographer second. So I need that path: thoink-aim camera-photo capture-pick-show-think again.

Again, thanks for suggestions and support.

jonathan7007
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 03:08:52 PM by jonathan7007 » Logged
jonathan7007
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 03:11:17 AM »
ReplyReply

Hey, All... am I allowed to bump this back into view?

I will be teaching photo taking and analysis skills to 4th and 5th grade using iPads. I hope to do the whole loop of shoot, edit, pick one, say why it's good, do better... on the school's iPads. Please see above posts for details.

I sought here any suggestions of kid-friendly photo capture and edit packages for the iPad.

Feedback, anyone?

Thanks in advance.

jonathan7007
Logged
opgr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1125


WWW
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 04:06:20 AM »
ReplyReply

Well, here's a suggestion that will probably be of little or no help to you:

Kids can do, and probably should be able to do, 10 things at a time in order to prepare them for the society they will eventually become a part of and even help shape, voluntary or otherwise. Parents generally can't do 10 things at a time, although the female variety does somewhat better.

So, perhaps these kids need to do this assignment working with ALL current mainstream offerings, thereby learning what's on offer, what functionality is available, and helping them to evaluate the best option for their specific needs. That is something they should learn to be able to do in general. If the eventual objective of the assignment is an evaluative conclusion on the offerings, with a direct individual reward (which product for my particular needs), while at the same time learning about other individual's arguments for selection, then this would make an extremely valuable lesson in general.

If the objective is more about the photographic/art evaluation experience, then I strongly suggest to skip the iPad. It makes for a horrible ergonomic photography device, and most of these kids will eventually (or already do) use mobile phones. In that case I would certainly prefer to use small digicams. Those would better separate the photography workflow from the entire process. Anyway, like I said, probably not very helpful to you.
Logged

Regards,
Oscar Rysdyk
theimagingfactory
jonathan7007
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 04:46:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Dear opgr,
I get your idea about evaluation on a higher level than the photo imaging I described. I did teach the kids to work at that kind of target level when I was a full-time 5th grade teacher with a classroom with several computers and our own blog and the next year our own wiki. I did lay out the parameters of this part-time assignment in my posts. I have limits, and public school teaching is full of limits just like the ones I have here, but we teachers do the best we can. Frankly, the powers that be would not allow me to explicitly name those goals you suggest. These kids are just turning nine on up through 10 years old an due to our rural environment and generally low incomes in the area have much less access to personal technology than those in some other environments. And the school doesn't have Photoshop, PS Elements, Lightroom, DxO, GIMP, or any other editing tools on the netbooks that are on the other carts. (The iPads have their own cart.)

Re: iPads. I don't have 25 little digicams. The school doesn't have 25 digicams. I don't have time to write a lot of grant proposals to request money to buy them, as this starts in late January because that's when it starts. It's great that they have the iPads, as goofy as most of us feel that form factor might be. Phones: no phones are allowed out of their backpacks on campus -- if they have one. Just the sight of a phone during the school day gets it confiscated. Most do NOT have phones. They're early nine and up to late ten (years old.)

I am a pro photographer and have taught photography, so I feel hugely lucky to have the chance to work with the kids. I taught elementary for some years after a bunch of years shooting professionally and now I am back to shooting again but I miss working with kids this age, and I always felt the Department of Education was ignoring the whole realm of communication with images.

As I said, I want to teach a good eye AND self [photo]analysis. I want them to follow through on improvements to an idea. This age resists doing anything "over". They write one draft and dig in their heels when asked to improve it with a second or third draft. So here I want them to feel the accomplishment of working an idea. Yes, I will teach some elements of photography, too.

Why did you feel that your comments would be of no use to me?

I would be glad to hear ideas about how this can work better in a group setting like a 40-minute session in a classroom with 25 kids. I know my ideas can be improved. Please consider that just getting all the units out (efficiently) and turned on to start working takes practice for this age.

Aloha from Hawaii,
jonathan7007
Logged
opgr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1125


WWW
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 05:59:07 AM »
ReplyReply

As I said, I want to teach a good eye AND self [photo]analysis. I want them to follow through on improvements to an idea. This age resists doing anything "over". They write one draft and dig in their heels when asked to improve it with a second or third draft. So here I want them to feel the accomplishment of working an idea. Yes, I will teach some elements of photography, too.

I would very much prefer verbal evaluation in small groups over written evaluation, although I suppose grading may become more problematic. You would ideally want about 5 people in a group. Don't know if that is somehow manageable. The digicams could possibly be supplied by some of the parents. You only need 5 for 5 groups. Otherwise we could start a donation right on this site. I'm sure lots of seemingly obsolete digicams are laying around gathering dust, which could be made to great use for pupils of that age. Heck, that would possibly be a good solution in general: start an organisation where one can send obsolete digicams that will either be used for these kind of projects, or will be correctly dismantled.

An entirely different scenario, which may be totally out-of-the-question considering the context, but which would really be a good preparation for the real world, is to start a kickstarter project with the group. You don't actually need a lot of moneys, and the best results can be rewarded as prints.

Logged

Regards,
Oscar Rysdyk
theimagingfactory
Peter McLennan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1692


« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 11:23:52 AM »
ReplyReply

I teach night school Photoshop and photography to adults, mainly for fun and to pay for ink. : )

This sounds like a GREAT idea.  I'd love to do this with the students I encounter.

The form factor of the iPad is just one of the limitations invoked by any camera and it presents advantages as well as disadvantages.  The large scale display allows for immediate and accurate evaluation on a personal or group level.  Go with it. 

On reflection, it seems an ideal camera for learning the basics of photography. Students get instant feedback on framing, exposure, contrast and story.  Too bad printing is so expensive.  Kids and the digital revolution notwithstanding, a REAL photograph is a print.  One you can hang on the fridge. : )

Regarding software, Photoshop for iPad.  $10.  Maybe Adobe would help out with bulk or educational pricing here.

https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/adobe-photoshop-touch/id495716481?mt=8

The big danger here is that the students would fall in love with Photoshop and forget about the original task, which is to learn to photograph. : )

I hope the iPads are well protected.



Logged
jonathan7007
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 02:24:55 PM »
ReplyReply

Comment are great! Thank you.

My sessions will be 40 min each, once a week, for ALL four fifth grades and ALL four fourth grades: 225 students, including Special Ed. I probably cannot send anyone to the office... I have to have a discussion with the Principal on a few of these logistics details. But I am strict about behavior in a classroom. I have taught this age in my own classroom.

Oskar: I didn't say they would write for my class. I have taught writing and have experience asking kids to "improve" something. They say back, "I did the task." Yes, we will use oral analysis and comment. They will be graded on several axes that I will be clear to them are evaluated. You raise interesting ideas that are beyond the scope of what we are allowed/I have promised to do. The parents don't have lots of cameras, either. I tried to be clear: this is not a town with any extra money and I don't want some kids to have and others not. Plus I have to have aforementioned 225 kids share the capture devices from whatever source. Your idea about an aggregator entity that would move older digicams to schools is interesting. Teachers don't usually want a set of different items to manage, get software updates for, etc. The school will definitely NOT be willing to manage a project with disparate gear. They don't have the IT bandwidth and the teacher mandate does not include any IT complication. I was very different for having a lot of older computers in my classroom -- but it was because I could maintain them. I have four weeks to put this all together. With holidays. With much-missed daughter home from grad school.

Peter: super ideas. Love the viewfinder and I think I might have them make it! Card stock is my friend: fold, cut out the 4:3 rectangle (I will preprint the lines) and they unfold the 8.5x11 sheet to have something to hold up in front of them. I had already made a list like yours: lines, pattern (I love to teach Math so I will weave that in.) Color (we'll talk RGB color wheel for computers as the Art Teacher still uses the yellow blue red configuration. But subjects like that have to grow organically from their experiences, not be lectures. Hmmm, Apple TV. I will ask the school. I think I have to move from room to room, pushing my iPad cart. It's a factor I have to nail down. I could contact Adobe and see where their head is at for inclusion later in the spring. Yes, they might head off into Photoshop la-la land but it would be thrilling for some. AND meet one of my objectives: "photos can fib."

I did want to get to telling stories. I started out in photojournalism. I will bring in the local newspaper, which is not too horrific for pictures. BTW, I did my Masters thesis on newspapers in education, because I long ago worked for a little while at the Boston Globe shooting. Super great time!

I will have to see if I can arrange printing. There are NO color printers out on the network except in a few senior-level offices. That's out, but I have to work out a site they can send to. The fears out there about pix of kids that are "on the Internet" are VERY STRONG.  So because there are images of each other the school may not want even one hornet stirred. Even on password-protected sites. Still left to negotiate. See, than I could ask for the ink to print them each week. But keeping track of whose shot I am printing is interesting, unless there's a way to put the kid's name in the EXIF headers. But any instruction on that will not be followed by lots of kids... maybe a good lesson right there! No entry, no print for you.

I hope re:protection I can use Guided Access in iOS6 and yes, I hope the cases can stand the handling... <grin>

Just writing all this is keeping me excited about doing this. Sounds like you get it, too.

jonathan7007
Logged
degrub
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 275


« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 04:30:36 PM »
ReplyReply

Instead of color printing, why not gray scale on whatever is available ?
Then consider hand "tinting" - always a fun activity at that age.

Frank
Logged
jonathan7007
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 05:24:21 PM »
ReplyReply

On the right paper that works and is a cool idea. The cart format is limiting for solutions we can think of. Further, I may not get permission to print these over the school network. Unfortunately now all the IT people are gone until about a week before I have to start this. But I can figure out what to do until they abnswer some of my system questions.

Thanks, again, Frank, for contributing.

jonathan7007
Logged
Peter McLennan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1692


« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2012, 09:27:32 PM »
ReplyReply

Instead of color printing, why not gray scale on whatever is available ?
Then consider hand "tinting" - always a fun activity at that age.
Frank

Beauty.  This would address any cost complaints by management.  BW laser print images are inexpensive per print and the printers are probably more accessible than colour printers on your network.  At 600 dpi, they can look pretty good.

Monochrome output would encourage good photographic discipline for the students, too. 
Logged
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad