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Author Topic: Black dots on canvas  (Read 1581 times)
Kanvas Keepsakes
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« on: November 20, 2012, 03:09:31 PM »
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Hey guys.  I've been ordering nothing but BC's Lyve Canvas for my business.  Lately the last couple of rolls have all had little black dots embedded into the canvas.  And of course it always is on a light blue or white sky image that the black dots show the most.  I can't give to clients like that so I have to reprint sometimes more than twice to get one that doesnt have black dots on it.  The black dots are not coming from the printer because I found them on the canvas before I even took it out of the plastic.  One of the techs said it could be cotton seeds ??  Here's two pics of what they look like.  I try to scratch it off and won't come off.  I have to literally dig into the canvas to remove them in turn ruining my print.  What other canvas do you all recommend that's as good as the Lyve canvas?  This is beginning to become a pain.  I might need to switch to another brand of canvas.  Any recommendations? 

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bill t.
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2012, 04:25:39 PM »
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Yup, those pop up every once in a while on most canvases.  Sometimes called "seeds" or "charcoal."  But a black speck in your sky by any other name would smell as bad.

Option #1...send it back if you see them before printing!

My best removal option for prints has been...

Coat the canvas.  Use a strong magnifier.  With a very sharp knife and many gentle cuts, make a single, crisp incision right over the speck, along the same axis as the major canvas texture.  Keep up the incisions down into the speck, through the little pocket opening you made in the coating.  The strategy is sort of to cut the speck in half, spread the opening in the canvas apart, and dig out the speck pieces.  Sometimes it helps to wipe down the surface directly over the speck with a moist paper towel.  Then tease the cut sides of the coating back together.  It's all about delicacy.  Easy.  Yeah, right.  But it works a lot of the time.

If you're using canvas, you will see a lot more surface and substrate anomalies than you would like.  Actually, "specks" are among the more benign diseases of canvas. Factory supplied "Craters" are the worst, second only to the craters one digs for one's self in the over enthusiastic pursuit of specks.

The ones you have don't look too deep.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 04:29:41 PM by bill t. » Logged
Kanvas Keepsakes
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2012, 05:18:30 PM »
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Thanks T.  Appreciate the very informed response.  I just hate printing 2-3 times to get one canvas right.  I'm gonna try your method on removing the specs.  Appreciate it
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Justan
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« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2012, 09:36:12 AM »
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^ and before you’ve pulled the seeds either have a collection of old and mostly used ink cartridges to fix the incision, or get yerself a big box of Faber Castell colored pens. In either case, use a 10x magnifier and leave nothing more than tiny dots of the right color(s) on the repaired area.
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Peter McLennan
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« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2012, 10:16:47 AM »
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Just another reason to hate the "Landscape Photographer's Nightmare"  Cloudless skies.
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mstevensphoto
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« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2012, 12:04:18 PM »
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I wouldn't waste any of my time removing the dots. call breathing color. Every time I've had an issue they send a new product. sometimes they want the old back sometimes not. that's a manufacturer defect whoever it came from and they should fix it. BC has great customer service, call them.
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Kanvas Keepsakes
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« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2012, 01:15:16 PM »
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MS, I have called them and they always help me out.  It's just been roll after roll of the same thing. 
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Kanvas Keepsakes
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« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2012, 01:17:56 PM »
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Justan, I have a box of those.  Only problem is they are real light.  So if I have a piece of ink that scratched off or something and I try to color with those pens I get a tint of the color I'm using over the white canvas but you can still see the white behind the color.  Only time they work for me is when I need to fill in black.  Acrylic paint seems to work for me I just wish there was a pen form of that.
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Colorwave
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« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2012, 07:57:31 PM »
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I do touchups with Staedtler Ergosoft watercolor pencils.  If I don't like the color or need to soften it, a damp paper towel to soften or erase.  Once it is coated with a water based spray finish, it is permanent and stable.

For my $.02, i switched from BC canvas to Lexjet because of quality control issues and have been very happy with that switch, as I greatly prefer their product.  I get a little better gamut, and the Lexjet canvas seems to have much better ink adhesion.  Coupled with the Lexjet Sunset coating, I'd say my canvas can take twice the abuse on gallery wrap corners as the BC/Timeless combo, perhaps more.
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2012, 08:08:24 PM »
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We are also using Lexjet matte almost exclusively.
At .92 a square foot it is also the best bang for the buck.
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Colorwave
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« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2012, 08:25:48 PM »
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Yeah, more specifically, I'm using Sunset Reserve Matte canvas.  I found the Sunset Select to have a little less texture, but didn't like the cool white tone with rather strong OBAs.  The Select is probably OK for photo prints, but just too extreme for reproducing artwork. The Sunset Reserve is a slightly warm white, and with multiple heavy coats of Sunset Satin or Gloss coating, I really like the resulting texture.  It has a very strong clear finish, but doesn't look like plastic as some canvases do when given a healthy dose of topcoat.  The cherry on top is their $9.99 flat rate shipping for any order of any size.  Hard to beat, especially when you are in the middle of a rather large ocean, a long way from any distributor.
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Kanvas Keepsakes
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« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2012, 11:06:10 PM »
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Lexjet?  Hmm I think I'm gonna give it a try.  If I print mostly photography of people, which one should I get from Lex? 
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bill t.
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« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2012, 03:11:53 PM »
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For human subjects, you might want to shy away from canvases with lots of OBA's, since they tend to go a little lurid under certain lighting conditions such as fluorescent light.  Which is not a bad thing for most other subjects.  For instance it has been long established that luridism in landscapes is a potent sales tool.  And even canvases without OBA's can show a lot of color variation under different kinds of lighting, hello Metamerism.  You have to test with actual images and canvases.  Sometimes you can run into a problem with smallish portraits on canvas where excessive texture gives the subject a warty appearance.  Best to stick with larger prints.  I think Ilford has a couple smooth canvases specially intended for portraits, anybody have feedback on that?

Last night I made prints on 44, 36, and 24 inch rolls of the same brand of high $ canvas.  Each roll has different amounts of texture, apparently different weaves, and slight variations in color and contrast for the same image.  Canvas users need to cultivate fatalism.  If it weren't for pumpkin pie and coffee, I would rant.

PS, while Sunset Select is indeed a nice, smooth canvas, Lyve really does have significantly better gamut that shows up most notably in green foliage and blue sky gradations.  But every few months I buy a roll of Lyve for testing, and there has always been an issue with the substrate such as varicose veins, excessive stiffness and/or texture, and most recently islands of excessive, head-swiping thickness.  Other than that, it's pretty sweet as matte canvases go.  I suspect it all comes down to the contract manufacturers that make the stuff, and I suspect there is quite a bit of hair pulling at BC because of this.  If Lyve were on a reasonably supple, minimally textured 18 mil substrate it would be Heaven on Earth.  Not that Sunset is foible free either, but its flaws seem easier to work around.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 03:24:13 PM by bill t. » Logged
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