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Author Topic: Phase One Schneider lenses  (Read 3770 times)
FredBGG
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« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2012, 03:27:56 PM »
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Not me, especially since this topic has been hashed through the forums multiple times in the past.  You should search before you post.

And btw - forget the 150, the rollei schneider 90mm apo macro is the best MF lens ever.   

Here's what I do want to discuss:

Fred, I saw an AE lupe style finder for the 680.  Can you tell me if that works with the 680 III or just the first two versions?


Regarding the Fuji GX680 AE loup finder:

I know for a fact that  it works with the version I camera.

I have heard that it works with the version II camera, but I have not tried myself.

It will fit on the GX680, but will not work due to a different contact layout.

However I do not recommend it for a couple of reasons.

First it does not show you speed or aperture settings in the viewfinder. It does show them on the top of the finder, but not in the finder when looking at the image
on the screen.
Second because it uses a semi silvered mirror to send light to the meter sensor. As a result it is not a nice bright finder.

There is another AE finder. The AE angle finder III.
While it is the best prism viewing I have ever used... bright and huge... the AE side of things is limited too.
No info in the finder... It's on the side... No indication of exposure or setting inside the angle finder.
It's very rare and expensive if you find one. I had to pay more than the new price for my second one.

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EricWHiss
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« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2012, 03:40:44 PM »
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Thanks Fred for the 680 info.  If you see one come up for sale....
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FredBGG
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« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2012, 04:53:48 PM »
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Not me, especially since this topic has been hashed through the forums multiple times in the past.  You should search before you post.

I did search, but did not find anything definitive and actually not much from Phase, Leaf or the dealers.

Due to your suggestion I did another search and came across this interesting stuff on the Japanese Mamiya website:
English is from the English pages on the Japanese site.



larger text


It says approved by Schnieder... no mention of Schneider designing it.

Here is the Japanese page. Slightly different wording, but same thing.



and here there is no mention of Schneider



larger text
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 05:02:48 PM by FredBGG » Logged
gazwas
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« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2012, 05:23:38 PM »
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I always thought Schneider designed the leaf shutters. I'm sure there must have been consultation between Mamiya and Schneider during the design stage of optically incorporating a large LS into the traditional Mamiya lenses and is probably where the marketing BS get the Schneider design from.

However, I for one have never thought the lenses were built by Schneider in Germany and if anyone does (Fred), they must be pretty gullible.

Anyway who cares, Phase versions of mamiya lenses have always costed more and is to be expected that Schneider versions with leaf shutters would cost even more. Are they worth the extra is very debatable but that depends on the individual IMO.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 05:26:16 PM by gazwas » Logged

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FredBGG
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« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2012, 06:02:19 PM »
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I always thought Schneider designed the leaf shutters. I'm sure there must have been consultation between Mamiya and Schneider during the design stage of optically incorporating a large LS into the traditional Mamiya lenses and is probably where the marketing BS get the Schneider design from.

However, I for one have never thought the lenses were built by Schneider in Germany and if anyone does (Fred), they must be pretty gullible.

Anyway who cares, Phase versions of mamiya lenses have always costed more and is to be expected that Schneider versions with leaf shutters would cost even more. Are they worth the extra is very debatable but that depends on the individual IMO.

Actually I didn't the LS lenses were made or designed by Schneider, because the first one to be seen with an LS shutter were announced  2008/09/16  about a year before the Schneider agreement was even announced in Sept. 28, 2009

The first LS announcement by Mamiya also stated that the shutter was designed in house. What is also interesting is that it was designed for the AFD III. Compatible with "645AFDII & III, ZD camera".

http://www.mamiya.co.jp/news_mdinr08090015_eng.html

Quote
Photokina 2008
Interchangeable Lenses for Use with Mamiya ZD and Mamiya 645AFDIII
Mamiya Sekor AF 80mm F2.8 D/LS
Mamiya Sekor AF 45mm F2.8 D

2008/09/16

   Mamiya Digital Imaging is pleased to announce at Photokina 2008 two new interchangeable lenses, the Mamiya Sekor AF 80mm F2.8 D/LS lens, and Mamiya Sekor AF 45mm D lens, the latest additions to our Sekor D range. These lenses can be used in conjunction with our 22 megapixel single lens reflex camera, the Mamiya ZD, or with models of our 6 x 4.5 format cameras, the 645AFDIII or AFDII. The lenses are designed for professional use and sure to be highly valued by professional photographers globally.
The lenses will be on display from the 23rd of September at the Mamiya booth. Come down for a sneak preview!

                                                        
Mamiya Sekor AF 80mm F2.8 D L/S (Prototype)
   # Features
The Mamiya Sekor AF 80mm F2.8 D L/S will be the first leaf shutter lens in Mamiya’s AF lens lineup.
The leaf shutter, which has been developed and manufactured in-house, is capable of shutter speeds from 1/800 second to 16 seconds, and has flash synchronization at all speeds. It allows more control for shooting during the day on location where daylight flash synchronization is required as well as for flash photography in studios. It has also been designed for easy and simple operation when used with the focal-plane shutter system of the 645AFDIII.
The lens has an angle of view of 47 degrees in the 6 x 4.5 format, the equivalent of a 50mm lens in the 35mm format.
As the occurrence of aberration is minimal and balance is of high quality, natural depictions are effectively portrayed. Switching between manual and auto focusing is achieved by simply moving the focusing ring back and forward.

Compatible cameras:   645AFDII & III, ZD camera   

Optical construction:   6 elements 5 groups
Angle of view:   47°
Minimum aperture:   22
Minimum focusing distance:   70cm
Maximum magnification ratio:   0.15
Area covered:   377 x 279mm
Equivalent focal length for 35mm:   50mm
Filter size:   72mm
Lens hood:   Bayonet type
Dimensions:   51.5 x 80.5mm
Weight:   330g
Shutter speed:   1/800-16 seconds
Flash sync:   Full speed synchronization
Focal length when attached to the Mamiya ZD:   93mm for the 645 format
(equivalent to 58mm in the 35mm format)   
 
Date of first sales: To be announced
Price: To be announced
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 07:06:27 PM by FredBGG » Logged
gazwas
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« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2012, 06:13:46 PM »
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Then what are you asking??

If the lens says "Made in Japan", why would it be made in Germany??

Is it me or do you answer all your own questions??
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2012, 07:29:15 PM »
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I always thought Schneider designed the leaf shutters. I'm sure there must have been consultation between Mamiya and Schneider during the design stage of optically incorporating a large LS into the traditional Mamiya lenses and is probably where the marketing BS get the Schneider design from.

However, I for one have never thought the lenses were built by Schneider in Germany and if anyone does (Fred), they must be pretty gullible.

Anyway who cares, Phase versions of mamiya lenses have always costed more and is to be expected that Schneider versions with leaf shutters would cost even more. Are they worth the extra is very debatable but that depends on the individual IMO.


Just for clarity sake - and I am speaking only of the USA here - Phase One and Mamiya branded versions of the same lens cost the exact same thing. Ditto for Schneider branded lenses, there is no difference in price whether they are distributed through Mamiya America Corporation or through Phase One USA.

In my experience, I have generally found the Phase One/Mamiya D lenses to be slightly higher resolving than the Mamiya AF lenses, and the same for the Schneider branded versions. More or less (except for a very few instances, like the 150mm), to a small degree (which may be a critical difference for some). And in all cases, chromatic aberrations are reduced, at least when compared to the Mamiya AF versions.

As a result, you could consider the Mamiya MF and AF glass a bargain, by comparison. Whether the new lenses are "overpriced" is for the market to decide. If they sell in good numbers, they are not overpriced. If they do not, they are. Anything else is only your own personal opinion on whether the price is worth it to you. Whether you're compelled optically, the new lenses offer extended warranties or high speed Leaf Shutters, and the value for these features is encompassed within the new pricing, as well as any optical improvements. The market decides.

Whenever the topic of Schneider branded lenses comes up, "who makes the glass?" always seems to be the question. I would pose that the design of the lenses themselves, as well as the relative positioning, spacing, and angle pitch of the optics is the more critical question, and in that case, Schneider handles that part of the equation, all of the design, calculations, and measurements. If you don't believe that, then you're telling me the Schneider Product Manager is lying to me.

I think if it means so much to someone to know, that they should take the opportunity to tour each facility and satisfy their own curiosity.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
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FredBGG
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« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2012, 07:35:17 PM »
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Then what are you asking??

If the lens says "Made in Japan", why would it be made in Germany??

Is it me or do you answer all your own questions??

Various videos on the Phase One website and you tube account babbling on about German Glass... like this one are a bit confusing:

http://youtu.be/SESZUZKQvAE

and Phase One has a video on it's website with the following description:
"The making of LS lenses
Phase One and Schneider Kreuznach work closely to provide high quality lenses to the demanding professional medium format photographers.
 Go behind the scenes and see how the leaf shutter lenses are made"

and the video at the Schneider plant never mentions Japan or shows any LS lenses being made.

The only lens you see in the shop is the Schneider Tilt Shift lens that is a Schneider product with a Mamiya mount and it's not a leaf shutter lens.

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FredBGG
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« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2012, 08:13:00 PM »
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Just for clarity sake - and I am speaking only of the USA here - Phase One and Mamiya branded versions of the same lens cost the exact same thing. Ditto for Schneider branded lenses, there is no difference in price whether they are distributed through Mamiya America Corporation or through Phase One USA.

Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

Hmm

"Phase One and Mamiya branded versions of the same lens cost the exact same thing"  Nope...


Mamiya Sekor 110mm f/2.8 LS D Lens for 645DF (only) Series Cameras $4,490.00          BH Photo

Mamiya Sekor AF 110mm f/2.8 LS D Lens for DM-33/56 DSLR Cameras $4,490.00     Adorama



PHASE ONE - SCHNEIDER KREUZNACH AF 110MM F2.8 LEAF SHUTTER LENS PRICE: $4,790.00        Samy's

Phase One Schneider 110mm f/2.8 LS AF Lens $4,790.00         Calumet

Phase One Schneider 110mm f/2.8 LS AF Lens $4,790     Digital transitions
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Schewe
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« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2012, 08:22:35 PM »
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"Phase One and Mamiya branded versions of the same lens cost the exact same thing"  Nope...


You are trying to compare a Mamiya/Phase 150 mm lens to a Schneider 150 mm lens...two different animals. What Steve said holds, a Mamiya branded Sekor lens and a Phase One branded Sekor lens should retail for a very similar prince...the Schneider lens has a leaf shutter, the Sekor lens does not.

BTW, as far as I know, B&H and Adorama are not even Phase One dealers...so can't even sell the Phase One branded Mamiya lens nor the Schneider...

Actually, I checked and Calumet is selling the Phase One AF 150mm f/2.8 IF Lens for $3,490 a (same'ish as the Mamiya) and the Phase One Schneider 150mm f/3.5 LS Auto Focus Lens (a totally different lens) for $4,990.

Edit...ooops, I noticed you were talking about a 110mm lens...seems Phase One doesn't even offer a Phase One branded lens but you could use the Mamiya branded lens on a Phase One camera.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 08:33:24 PM by Schewe » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2012, 08:41:01 PM »
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Edit...ooops, I noticed you were talking about a 110mm lens...seems Phase One doesn't even offer a Phase One branded lens but you could use the Mamiya branded lens on a Phase One camera.

Yes they do:

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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2012, 09:08:49 PM »
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Hmm

"Phase One and Mamiya branded versions of the same lens cost the exact same thing"  Nope...


Mamiya Sekor 110mm f/2.8 LS D Lens for 645DF (only) Series Cameras $4,490.00          BH Photo

Mamiya Sekor AF 110mm f/2.8 LS D Lens for DM-33/56 DSLR Cameras $4,490.00     Adorama



PHASE ONE - SCHNEIDER KREUZNACH AF 110MM F2.8 LEAF SHUTTER LENS PRICE: $4,790.00        Samy's

Phase One Schneider 110mm f/2.8 LS AF Lens $4,790.00         Calumet

Phase One Schneider 110mm f/2.8 LS AF Lens $4,790     Digital transitions



Fred -

You've validated my statement although you've misunderstood my point.

The same "D" Lens, whether it is branded Mamiya or Phase One - costs the same (in the USA). The same Schneider LS lens (whether it also carries an additional Mamiya/Phase branding, and regardless of whether it is imported and distributed in the USA via Mamiya America or Phase One USA), also costs the same amount (not as the Mamiya D lenses - not what I was stating). Of course the Schneider LS lenses cost more than the "D" lenses. That wasn't the point. You made the statement  that the "Mamiya branded LS lenses were less expensive than the Phase One/Schneider branded lenses. This is false - as you just proved yourself with your last response.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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FredBGG
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« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2012, 09:16:08 PM »
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Fred -

You've validated my statement although you've misunderstood my point.

The same "D" Lens, whether it is branded Mamiya or Phase One - costs the same (in the USA). The same Schneider LS lens (whether it also carries an additional Mamiya/Phase branding, and regardless of whether it is imported and distributed in the USA via Mamiya America or Phase One USA), also costs the same amount (not as the Mamiya D lenses - not what I was stating). Of course the Schneider LS lenses cost more than the "D" lenses. That wasn't the point. You made the statement  that the "Mamiya branded LS lenses were less expensive than the Phase One/Schneider branded lenses. This is false - as you just proved yourself with your last response.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

The prices I listed are for LS lenses. Both identical models except for the branding. Read the post again.... sloooowly Wink
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 09:27:53 PM by FredBGG » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2012, 09:34:44 PM »
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The same "D" Lens, whether it is branded Mamiya or Phase One - costs the same (in the USA).
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

You are wrong here too.

Mamiya Normal 80mm f/2.8 Autofocus "D" Lens for 645AF $1,490.00  B+H Photo

Phase One 80mm f/2.8 AF D Lens $1,590.00 Calumet
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2012, 09:54:03 PM »
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The prices I listed are for LS lenses. Both identical models except for the branding. Read the post again.... sloooowly Wink


You can be forgiven for not knowing this, but both the the Mamiya/Schneider and Phase One/Schneider branded lenses have had a price increase in this year. It is not surprising that the two "fulfillment-oriented" companies - who do not sell Phase One, by the way - have either neglected or decided not to adjust their pricing to reflect the new higher pricing. This is commonplace for B&H/Adorama. I can tell you that the dealer pricing as well as the proposed list pricing is the same for both Mamiya/Schneider and Phase One/Schneider lenses.

I am only hoping beyond hope that you don't somehow find yet more energy - which truly would be better spent dedicated to producing some more of those wonderful images you show - on disregarding the truth of the matter so as to reinforce whatever critically important and relevant position you were attempting to declare on....whatever it is....that seems so important to you. And I further hope that in your reckless pursuit of of the clearly elusive resolution of your itch, that you somehow find it within yourself to spare those who would be caught up in the wake of your um, journey. I don't feel confident that mercy and selflessness are within you, however.

I don't mind spending time to correct misinformation if it has been produced innocently. But no, I do not appreciate the need to spend time correcting misinformation that is spread willfully and recklessly. And your attempt and desires to do so are a disservice to the other members of this forum, IMO.  


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 10:17:55 PM by Steve Hendrix » Logged

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Schewe
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« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2012, 09:59:48 PM »
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Yes they do:

No, they don't...the image you showed is a Phase One branded "Schneider" lens...what part os the Schneider lens don't you understand? The Phase One/Mamiya lenses (without leaf shutter) are different lenses than the Phase One Schneider lenses with a leaf shutter. Fact is, Phase One doesn't even offer a 110mm lens that isn't Schneider and Mamiya doesn't offer a Schneider 110mm version with a leaf shutter.

As far as different retailers selling the same thing for different prices, why are you surprised? B&H routinely sells stuff for less than Calumet and note, B&H can't even sell Phase One branded anything because they aren't a dealer and Calumet  lists only the Mamiya 110 lens for the RZ, not the 645 camera. Apple & oranges bud...
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2012, 10:23:30 PM »
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Agree. One needs to remember Phase One owns three brands . Leaf, Mamiya and Phase One which are branded for different markets. Only Phase One dealers can sell Phase One branded products. B&H sells only Mamiya branded lenses distributed I think still by the MAC group. Companies like Capture integration. Digital transitions, Bear Imaging and Calumet and a few others can only sell the Phase brand. These companies offer full support of the product line. B&h sells Mamiya and offers Zero, Zlitch support for Mamiya they are a discount t house which has different pricing and offers no service support on ANY brand. Completely different animals. Now change of subject buy a Hassy from B&H and ask for service support. You want to get laughed at just ask them. I buy all my Phase gear from CI and DT as well and I get total sales, service and repair not to mention complete care and advice from these folks. Now tell me why the hell would I buy anywhere else when it comes to Phase One products that is what I am paying for. That comes at some costs not to mention Phase one lenses come with a longer warranty if I'm not mistaken

Fred I will be kind here and offer a bit of advice as a working Pro. You are seriously killing any credibility you have with this constant trolling towards Phase. I own a forum and been on them for years . Trust me I am offering you a friendly piece of advice. You may want to seriously consider your reputation on several levels. Someone needs to actually say this. Take it in the spirit is given. I will not respond further to this thread as it is just feeding negatively to a company I admire and have owned a lot of there products.
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2012, 11:46:05 PM »
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As said before my sales of my gear where of a very serious personal nature , has nothing to do with photography and since your really a ass on this one. How's this my wife has 2 primary cancers. Is that fucking good enough for ya. Fred once again I banned you from GetDPI for exactly this same misinformed comments and spreading rumors. I suggest the owners and mods do the same.


Phase one does not advertise on GetDPI at all and makes no money from the forum from them. Jack and I are both PODAS instructors though but that is as individuals. Those are facts you can actually use.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 11:52:32 PM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

FredBGG
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« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2012, 11:57:25 PM »
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As said before my sales of my gear where of a very serious personal nature , has nothing to do with photography and since your really a ass on this one. How's this my wife has 2 primary cancers. Is that fucking good enough for ya. Fred once again I banned you from GetDPI for exactly this same misinformed comments and spreading rumors. I suggest the owners and mods do the same.


Very sorry to hear that, but I remember at the time when you sold the Phase One DF it was to go to 35mm and tech cam combination. A bit like my choice at the same time of going with 35mm DSLR and MF film.
That was what I was referring to.


http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-wtb/34817-sold-phase-one-df-kit-lenses-accessories.html

I wish your wife the very best. There has been Cancer in my family too. My wife's best friend just beat it too. Best of luck to you both!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 04:53:14 AM by FredBGG » Logged
Schewe
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« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2012, 01:13:46 AM »
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Hey all I did was quote the published prices of authorized dealers that include Adorama and B+H.

But, neither Adorama nor B+H are authorized Phase One dealers (unless somebody bribed somebody some where). Again apples and oranges...by thins point you should "get it", right? If you don't, then something else is going on...right?
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