Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Why was the topic closed about the origine of Phase One Shneider lenses ?  (Read 3479 times)
Kitty
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 126


WWW
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2012, 07:57:03 PM »
ReplyReply

The problem with this philosophy is that 90% of the people who come here don't visit frequently enough to get a sense for who has what hidden agendas and biases unless they are fully disclosed.

For this reason I have my job/brand affiliations at the bottom of my posts. And anytime I address a post by someone new to the site I go out of my way to start my reply explaining my bias. While I try very hard to provide useful advice based on practical experience rather than marketing/advertising claims I do not pretend or hide that I can be considered entirely objective.

But there is no signature for "My main purpose here is to exact vengeance on a company I have developed a personal vandetta against; while my posts often have some validity which could be intelligently discussed and while my experience and knowledge as a photographer are valuable and could be shared constructively you should know the underlying purpose of this post is to find any nit I can and then pick at it in order to provide as much negativity towards this company as possible."

Such a shame: fredbgg has so much he could offer to this community, but instead he spends hours pouring through advertising videos looking for continuity errors and presenting them as a grand conspiracy of an evil empire.

You are right. I did not read every post. I always thanks for your helpful and informative knowledge you supply to this place.
I also welcome any personal experience and comments.
Time will prove who lies.
Logged
Guy Mancuso
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1112


WWW
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2012, 08:23:14 PM »
ReplyReply

You clearly missed a couple of posts that were deleted before the thread was purged.

THANK YOU for removing the thread it was insult to this community to support it any further.

Exactly and I get left holding the bad guy position. Which is totally fine with me. Typical remove post before anyone quotes it. I know all those tricks . It's okay I have a very thick skin and I thought maybe some friendly advice would be accepted , obviously not so result attack the advice guy.  But it clearly points out what your dealing with. Price on phase one products is dependent from Phase One dealers which B&H is NOT a Phase dealer. It sells Mamiya branded lenses which do NOT have the same warranty. Please read what Steve , Doug and Jeff are telling you this is not worth my time here.

What is extremely irritating is bad info that gets thrown around that is just flat out wrong. People are trying to give correct data to correct that. I give the above mentioned names credit for trying as myself.
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 5951


When everybody thinks the same... nobody thinks.


WWW
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2012, 08:24:25 PM »
ReplyReply

... THANK YOU for removing the thread...

The thread has not been removed, just locked.
Logged

Slobodan

Flickr
500px
K.C.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 650


« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2012, 10:37:00 PM »
ReplyReply

The thread has not been removed, just locked.

A matter of semantics. It was 'removed' from discussion.

Time to move on and not a moment too soon.

Logged
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 7503


WWW
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2012, 10:56:24 PM »
ReplyReply

+1

Erik

Both Doug's and Steve's serious and heartfelt replies are much appreciated. These forums are much better places with your participation, both knowledgeable and even-handed. Thank you both.
Logged

Wayne Fox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2859



WWW
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2012, 01:10:21 AM »
ReplyReply


There are at least two models for internet forums: one practiced by Mike Johnston and his The Online Photographer blog, and the other by LuLa. Mike prescreens every post to make sure it adheres to his standards, and LuLa does not.
but on Mike's blog discussion is "comments"  to the articles ... not really the same as a forum where exchange is the goal. And I wonder if Mike's major motivation to review them is to be able to place ones that add insight in some manner to the bottom of the article, enhancing the experience for the user.  While doing so he has  the opportunity to cull out things that most typical forums don't have time to monitor.  Mike does a great job and I go there everyday, but I rarely read through the comment threads other than those he has chosen and promoted to the main page.  I assume there are occasions where two or more get into a "discussion"via his comments, but because of his policies it would be difficult ... waiting for approval.

Pushing all comments through a moderator or approval process can be a little scary, as we've seen from other forums where the personal viewpoints of those moderating bias what happens.  and perhaps more damaging is the time lag ... often the quick exchange and back and forth discussions are very useful and helpful ... I myself have on a couple of occasions had a challenge and within a matter of minutes a helpful reply back has solved a problem.

I'm not sure you were inferring this is how LuLa should be, and guessing you weren't, just seems like the comparison is one of those apples to oranges kind of things...
Logged

Justinr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1011


WWW
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2012, 04:09:02 AM »
ReplyReply

- List price of Mamiya branded LS and Schneider branded LS lenses (same lens, different distro channels) are the same. Any discrepancy in price is due to the box movers whose online prices are governed by algorithm and database managers not product specialists who actually keep track of things like pricing changes (of which there was one on those lenses). Generally BH waits until someone at the manufacturer notices the MAP violation to change the price they list at, and if any of their competitors have a lower price they have a robot program that finds that price and matches it.



At the risk of being accused of going off topic I'd just like to respond to that by pointing out that this is why I hate internet shopping. There is no personal involvement, no feel good factor about making a decision based on anything other than price, It just so demeans the experience of acquiring equipment. I like to talk to the people I am spending money with not just spend hours browsing the web to find something a few cents cheaper from supplier X rather than supplier Y. A market that is maintained and manipulated by cold computing is one that I'd rather not get involved in but I guess there are enough people who think it's clever out there to keep the momentum of this development rolling. Can't say I'm one of them.
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 5951


When everybody thinks the same... nobody thinks.


WWW
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2012, 08:21:21 AM »
ReplyReply

...I'm not sure you were inferring this is how LuLa should be, and guessing you weren't...

Your guess is right, Wayne, I definitely do not want LuLa to be like Mike's blog, not because there is something wrong with it, but because they are quite different animals, as you correctly described. As I said, I like them both, for different reasons.

I was more responding to some posters who apparently crave censorship.

P.S. Just to avoid any possible misunderstanding, I certainly do not consider the fine job owners and moderators of this site are doing as censorship. I appreciate the patience, tolerance, and latitude they have.
Logged

Slobodan

Flickr
500px
TMARK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1843


« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2012, 08:48:57 AM »
ReplyReply

At the risk of being accused of going off topic I'd just like to respond to that by pointing out that this is why I hate internet shopping. There is no personal involvement, no feel good factor about making a decision based on anything other than price, It just so demeans the experience of acquiring equipment. I like to talk to the people I am spending money with not just spend hours browsing the web to find something a few cents cheaper from supplier X rather than supplier Y. A market that is maintained and manipulated by cold computing is one that I'd rather not get involved in but I guess there are enough people who think it's clever out there to keep the momentum of this development rolling. Can't say I'm one of them.

It depends on the product and its use.  A Canon/Nikon/Fuji just works (mostly) out of the box.  For stills, they use their own accessories which are designed to work together.  The high quality thrid-party lenses have seamless integration.  I've mostly purchased gear for business, so the joy of aquisition isn't a priority for me. Saving money was a priority.  

This isn't necessarily the case with MFDB.  An MFDB can be used in many ways, with lots of third-party cameras/lenses, old cameras, new cameras, etc.  There are software issues, mechanical problems with older cameras, power problems with newer laptops and tech cameras, and there is the cost. I'm not damning the backs at all, its just the nature of the things.  These issues are helped with a dealer who can walk you through it before and after purchase.

At the end of the day, I'd buy a Phase or Leaf back from a dealer, new or used.  If I wanted an H or a Pentax, I'd be fine with Best Buy, because I would only be using an H or a Pentax body and lenses.  Cuts down on the variables which can cause issues where a dealer would be useful.  If I shot a tech camera I'd go the dealer route, or had any "unusual" use where extensive testing is required.  



Logged
henrikfoto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 708


« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2012, 09:37:19 AM »
ReplyReply

I totally disagree with Mike in this.
This belongs in China and Russia, not in the west.

Sad to learn about this...
Logged
Justinr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1011


WWW
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2012, 09:52:37 AM »
ReplyReply

It depends on the product and its use.  A Canon/Nikon/Fuji just works (mostly) out of the box.  For stills, they use their own accessories which are designed to work together.  The high quality thrid-party lenses have seamless integration.  I've mostly purchased gear for business, so the joy of aquisition isn't a priority for me. Saving money was a priority.  

This isn't necessarily the case with MFDB.  An MFDB can be used in many ways, with lots of third-party cameras/lenses, old cameras, new cameras, etc.  There are software issues, mechanical problems with older cameras, power problems with newer laptops and tech cameras, and there is the cost. I'm not damning the backs at all, its just the nature of the things.  These issues are helped with a dealer who can walk you through it before and after purchase.

At the end of the day, I'd buy a Phase or Leaf back from a dealer, new or used.  If I wanted an H or a Pentax, I'd be fine with Best Buy, because I would only be using an H or a Pentax body and lenses.  Cuts down on the variables which can cause issues where a dealer would be useful.  If I shot a tech camera I'd go the dealer route, or had any "unusual" use where extensive testing is required.  





I can see the sense in that, I guess it's what you are happy with.

The other point is that in the 'good ol' days' there was a certain sense of mystique about photography and cameras were valued as tools rather than than consumer products, in fact that goes for a lot of things  but what does break down is customer loyalty and service which can be a retrograde step as I know from another interest of mine.
Logged

Steve Hendrix
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1123


WWW
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2012, 12:05:45 PM »
ReplyReply

Exactly and I get left holding the bad guy position. Which is totally fine with me. Typical remove post before anyone quotes it. I know all those tricks . It's okay I have a very thick skin and I thought maybe some friendly advice would be accepted , obviously not so result attack the advice guy.  But it clearly points out what your dealing with. Price on phase one products is dependent from Phase One dealers which B&H is NOT a Phase dealer. It sells Mamiya branded lenses which do NOT have the same warranty. Please read what Steve , Doug and Jeff are telling you this is not worth my time here.

What is extremely irritating is bad info that gets thrown around that is just flat out wrong. People are trying to give correct data to correct that. I give the above mentioned names credit for trying as myself.


Actually Guy, the warranty for the same Mamiya and Phase One lenses is the same. The only difference when it comes to the warranties for all of the discussed lenses is Mamiya/Phase One Focal Plane Shutter lenses (D Lenses) come with a 3 year warranty, Schneider Leaf Shutter Lenses come with a 1 year warranty.

The more precise point is that if B&H or Adorama also sold Phase One lenses, the pricing they would sell them at would very likely be the same as what they sell the Mamiya lenses at because the dealer cost to them (just as it is with us and every other dealer) is the same. So, assuming that the Mamiya lenses cost less than the same Phase One lens might be a conclusion, but it is only based on several sellers who do not also sell Phase One lenses. At dealers where both brands are sold, the price seems to be the same.

My additional take on moderating of forums - I don't really care so much about insults or personal emotions running high, etc. Passion - is good! Feel what you feel. Though too much of that can just leave a sour taste. I'm more concerned about threads that waste people's time and purposely are designed to stir up provocation, and which promote misinformation (or at least information that results in misinformation). Sorry, that was a mouthful.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Logged

Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475
Guy Mancuso
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1112


WWW
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2012, 12:48:43 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for clarifying the warranties Steve.
Logged

FredBGG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1651


« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2012, 09:53:13 PM »
ReplyReply

Exactly and I get left holding the bad guy position. Which is totally fine with me. Typical remove post before anyone quotes it. I know all those tricks . It's okay I have a very thick skin and I thought maybe some friendly advice would be accepted , obviously not so result attack the advice guy.  But it clearly points out what your dealing with. Price on phase one products is dependent from Phase One dealers which B&H is NOT a Phase dealer. It sells Mamiya branded lenses which do NOT have the same warranty. Please read what Steve , Doug and Jeff are telling you this is not worth my time here.

What is extremely irritating is bad info that gets thrown around that is just flat out wrong. People are trying to give correct data to correct that. I give the above mentioned names credit for trying as myself.

In the same post you complain about misinformation and you post misinformation (in upper case too Wink.  The warranties are the same for the equivalent Phase one or Mamiya versions of lenses. Phase One 110mm LS 1 year, Mamiya 110mm LS 1 year. You may be able to purchase more warranty.

Rgarding the prices of Phase One and Mamiya lenses it's really quite simple. All anyone has to do is give BH Photo a call and and ask for their best price. The result is that in the real world
the price of a Mamiya version of the lens lower. 212.502.6295. For repairs BH is just as capable as other dealers in sending the gear to the manufacturers repair center for service.
Same goes for Samy's in LA. Both are companies with big internet sales as well as huge walk in stores with large well staffed pro departments.

(Edit) I see Steve here confirms the warranty stuff)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 09:56:58 PM by FredBGG » Logged
FredBGG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1651


« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2012, 10:05:34 PM »
ReplyReply

At the risk of being accused of going off topic I'd just like to respond to that by pointing out that this is why I hate internet shopping. There is no personal involvement, no feel good factor about making a decision based on anything other than price, It just so demeans the experience of acquiring equipment. I like to talk to the people I am spending money with not just spend hours browsing the web to find something a few cents cheaper from supplier X rather than supplier Y. A market that is maintained and manipulated by cold computing is one that I'd rather not get involved in but I guess there are enough people who think it's clever out there to keep the momentum of this development rolling. Can't say I'm one of them.

Both B+H and Adorama are brick and mortar stores. You can walk in and talk as well as order online. Whenever I'm in New York I pop in to buy this or that and then from LA buy online. I get to know the pro department
guys and know who I talk to when I phone in. I have bought from B+H for over twenty years, even ordering rare items from them when I was living in Europe. One time I was heading to a shoot in New Orleans from Milan and I needed
an 8x10 camera with a 480mm Schnieder. They found it for me and had it packed and ready to pick up between my fight stop over in New York.
Logged
K.C.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 650


« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2012, 10:10:32 PM »
ReplyReply

When I think of all the people who would do so much with all the opportunity and talent that you have Fred. It's just sad to see how you spend your time.
Logged
FredBGG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1651


« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2012, 10:22:15 PM »
ReplyReply

When I think of all the people who would do so much with all the opportunity and talent that you have Fred. It's just sad to see how you spend your time.

Sorry if you think advising fellow photographers where to get good service and better prices is wasting my time.
This last week I spent quite a bit of time with other photographers.
A portrait photographer I met at Calumet. She was buying some gear because she had her first large group shot portrait.
I spent about an hour with her giving her advice on how to work with a group. What face types to put in what part of the photo,
mainly light for the most difficult face etc. Use depth rather than a shooting squad lineup and most importantly use a good amount of distance
between light and subject so there is less light fall of for the people posed further back. Interesting thing is that the sales man asked me if I could do A lighting
workshop for them.
Yesterday I spent and hour or so on the phone helping out a photographer I know only on line from a forum.
But I find that helping out keeps me on the ball. Also if something comes up and I need something I have a lot of assistants and photographers I can call for help.




« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 10:31:52 PM by FredBGG » Logged
ErikKaffehr
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 7503


WWW
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2012, 10:29:31 PM »
ReplyReply

Hi,

My feeling is that this forum is and should be kept civilized. I would say that passion is good, but we should keep of offending persons, invectives, foul language and so on.

I don't think that folks normally spread misinformation intentionally. Of course much of the information we have would not held in court. Also much of the information is difficult to convey. Take for instance any statements referring to prints. Prints cannot be easily distributed on the net. Files can be distributed over the net, on the other hand and I would suggest we have seen few of that.

Best regards
Erik



My additional take on moderating of forums - I don't really care so much about insults or personal emotions running high, etc. Passion - is good! Feel what you feel. Though too much of that can just leave a sour taste. I'm more concerned about threads that waste people's time and purposely are designed to stir up provocation, and which promote misinformation (or at least information that results in misinformation). Sorry, that was a mouthful.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Logged

K.C.
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 650


« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2012, 10:55:51 PM »
ReplyReply

Sorry if you think advising fellow photographers where to get good service and better prices is wasting my time.

That may be a small part of what you. Primarily you bitch and it's just annoying.
Logged
EricWHiss
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2416



WWW
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2012, 11:02:50 PM »
ReplyReply

Fred,
I very much doubt your motivation in these threads is to help anyone.  If you wanted to help, you'd be posting how to work around issues that come up with the products like most of the rest of us do.
Logged

Authorized Rolleiflex Dealer:
Find product information, download user manuals, or purchase online - Rolleiflex USA
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad