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Author Topic: Hasselblad 203FE + P45 combo doesn't work with CFE lenses?  (Read 1793 times)
Mr. Rib
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« on: December 06, 2012, 08:29:54 AM »
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Here's my concern..

I want to use a 203FE with P45 back and CFE lenses.
I found the following info in Phase One knowledge base regarding this matter:

Phase One backs will work on a Hasselbad 200 series body with a special workaround. The shutterwheel on the body needs to be set to "C" in order to disable the built-in shutter. Only C, CB, CF, CFA, or CFi lenses can be used. These lenses have a built-in shutter. This way the camera will operate like the Hasselblad 500 series cameras. The FE lenses have no shutter build-in.

As I understand, CFE lenses were omitted by mistake / not on purpose? I don't see why a CFE lens wouldn't work on a 203FE body with Phase One back if CF / CFi lenses are working..
I understand that my concern may be silly but just in case, I want to be sure.. Smiley I won't have a chance to try a 203FE body with my CFE lenses before the purchase.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2012, 09:05:01 AM »
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If it's got a (working) shutter and a (working) sync port it should work.
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design_freak
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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2012, 09:38:28 AM »
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Using the focal plane shutter in 203FE camera with CFE lenses.
1. Attach the lens to 203FE
2. On the shutter speed ring, press the orange button on the lens and move the shutter ring to F position.
The F function disengages the leaf shutter in the lens, thereby allowing the photographer to use the
focal plane shutter in the camera and selecting shutter speeds as fast as 1/2000 second.
3. Set the desired aperture. (Aperture information will be seen in viewfinder display)
4. Depress shutter release to take photograph.


Using the leaf shutter in the CFE lenses on the 203FE.
1. Attach lens to 203FE
2. Move the shutter speed ring on the 203FE body to B position. Press lens release button and turn shutter
speed ring to C position. Doing so will disengage the focal plane shutter in the 203FE allowing the
photographer to utilize the leaf shutter in the CF/CFi lens. The focal plane shutter will act as an
auxiliary shutter that prevents the film from inadvertent exposure.
3. Set the desired aperture and shutter speed.
4. Depress shutter release to take photograph.
NOTE: the leaf shutter remains closed after the exposure, leaving the viewfinder dark until the
camera is rewound.
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Best regards,
DF

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Mr. Rib
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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2012, 10:02:07 AM »
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That's what I thought. It wouldn't be logical if it didn't..

design_freak: I've read the manual.. I wasn't asking how to use a leaf shutter on a 203FE camera. My question was specific about CFE lenses working with a digital back, which weren't mentioned in Phase One knowledge base entry. Just making sure they work.

One more thing- when you use leaf shutter, you lose all the 'automation' of the 203FE camera, namely the A / Ab mode etc. As I've read in the manual, one can still use aperture priority mode when using leaf shutter of the lens- proper shutter speed for a given aperture will be indicated by the 203FE body, but you have to adjust it manually with the shutter speed ring on the lens. Is that correct?

I guess you lose most of the good things that 203FE gives you if you use it with a Phase One back.. Is there a workaround solution to work with Phase One back and focal plane shutter of 203FE or is it totally impossible? As I understand, the 'digital back adjustment' made by Hasselblad is only for CFV backs allowing them to operate without the sync cable?
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design_freak
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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2012, 10:17:02 AM »
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As I understand, the 'digital back adjustment' made by Hasselblad is only for CFV backs allowing them to operate without the sync cable?

Yes, after that you can use CFV without sync cable, but you losse connection with "E" film magazines.
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DF

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Mr. Rib
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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2012, 10:32:00 AM »
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Ok so in other words, getting a Hasselblad 203FE for a Phase One back has no sense.. or maybe there is some sort of sync cable manufactured by Kapture Group / other 3rd party company allowing the use of focal plane shutter of 20x camera with Phase One back?
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design_freak
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2012, 10:33:36 AM »
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As I know PhaseOne back don't work with FE lenses (203FE). And this body need some service work to work with FE lenses with PhaseOne backs.
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Best regards,
DF

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Mr. Rib
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 10:37:27 AM »
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From what you just wrote I can draw a conclusion that after service work it's possible to use focal plane shutter with Phase One back and 203FE camera. Is that the case? I haven't heard about it / didn't read about it anywhere. Can someone confirm this?

As I know PhaseOne back don't work with FE lenses (203FE). And this body need some service work to work with FE lenses with PhaseOne backs.
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design_freak
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2012, 10:54:55 AM »
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I'm not sure now. Write via PM to Douglas Fairbank. He would know best.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2012, 12:54:43 PM »
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Two sets of timing would be required to support both focal plane shutter and leaf shutter due to the scaning nature of a focal plane shutter.
A 1/2000th of a second exposure exposes each part of the sensor for 1/2000th of a second but takes longer to complete than even a 1/500th of a second leaf shutter exposure.

Are these timing differences supported by Hasselblad to Phase One back communication?

I was looking into using my 110mm fe FE lens on a 200 series camera a while ago. I looked back at my notes and found this quote:

Quote
The CF lenses work on the Hasselbad 200 series camera bodies in the following way: the focal plane shutter must be locked open on the body and the leaf shutter in the CF lens is used just like on a V body.

Phase One backs designed for Mechanical Hasselblad (V-series) are compatible but with the following limitations.

# 201 F - Does not work with FE Lenses. Use C, CB, CF, CFA, or CFi lenses
# 202 FA - Not recommended
# 203 FE - Does not work with FE Lenses. Use C, CB, CF, CFA, or CFi lenses
# 205 FCC - Does not work with FE Lenses. Use C, CB, CF, CFA, or CFi lenses

Sorry I can't remember where I copied this from.

There was also something about the mechanical pin on the back of the Hasselblad camera needing to be painted silver so as
to wake up the back.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 01:26:47 PM by FredBGG » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2012, 01:14:38 PM »
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Found it:

http://www.phaseone.com/Search/Article.aspx?articleid=1556&languageid=1

Full text:

Quote
1556
Summary   Phase One Digital backs with Hasselblad 200 Series camera bodies.
Problem   Are Phase One backs compatible with Hasselblad 200 series camera bodies?
Solution   Phase One backs will work on a Hasselbad 200 series body with a special workaround.
The shutterwheel on the body needs to be set to "C" in order to disable the built-in shutter.
Only C, CB, CF, CFA, or CFi lenses can be used. These lenses have a built-in shutter.
This way the camera will operate like the Hasselblad 500 series cameras. The FE lenses have no shutter build-in.

The CF lenses work on the Hasselbad 200 series camera bodies in the following way:
the focal plane shutter must be locked open on the body and the leaf shutter in the CF lens is used just like on a V body.

Phase One backs designed for Mechanical Hasselblad (V-series) are compatible but with the following limitations.

201 F - Does not work with FE Lenses. Use C, CB, CF, CFA, or CFi lenses
202 FA - Not recommended
203 FE - Does not work with FE Lenses. Use C, CB, CF, CFA, or CFi lenses
205 FCC - Does not work with FE Lenses. Use C, CB, CF, CFA, or CFi lenses

For information on the use of your Hasselblad 200 series camera with the lenses mentioned above please refer to the documentation that came with your Hasselblad camera.

The 2000 series are simply older versions of the 200 series.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2012, 01:20:19 PM »
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Try giving Kapture Group a call. They have made some tools to make cameras communicate with Phase One backs.
If there is a way Keith at Kapture group is the man Wink

He does make some special cables for the 200 and 2000 series bodies and has made a One shot box for the Phase One on Fuji gx680 cameras
so he should know all about the issue.

Maybe the OneShot Cable Release for Hasselblad 200 and 2000 Bodies would work for you.



Good luck!
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Mr. Rib
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2012, 03:19:31 PM »
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Hi Fred,

First of all, thank you for contributing.
Yes, I've seen Phase One knowledge base entry- I think they meant CFE lenses, not "CFA", which makes sense.

Funnily enough I took the same path of reasoning- if there is an applicable solution to the problem, Kapture Group has one Smiley
I contacted Keith a few hours ago and in fact there are two solutions- OneShot Cable Release for Hasselblad 200 and 2000 bodies and the multishot cable release. Both are a bit workaround but it's as good as it gets: with OneShot cable you need to press / release it once slightly before taking the exposure- this wakes up the back. Then you press the trigger deep and you have to hold it until the shutter is closed. Multishot gives you freedom of triggering the exposure (no additional sync / trigger cables, just to control unit for the back), but the operation is a bit awkward- you press the 'wake' button, then you press 'capture' button, then you take the photo with the camera trigger and after the exposure ends, you click 'wake' button again to switch your P1 back to standby/sleep mode.

So that would be it- there still is one option to check, though less probable one- that Hasselblad is capable ot adjusting the camera signals to make the sync with P1 back possible. I've been told by Keith that there would be a problem with curtain sync signal (wake up signal syncing is easy peasy). Anyway, if there is a Hassy service route to follow, I'll update this thread.

Fred, thanks for taking your time to research this!
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FredBGG
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2012, 07:23:38 PM »
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No problem... I had it in my notes from when I was looking into it.

Douglas Fairbank is very knowlegable about the V system
He is a forum member.

You can reach him through his website. He is UK based, but has recently taken over
UK Hasselblad V support with his own independant company/shop

http://www.classicv.co.uk/
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 07:33:59 PM by FredBGG » Logged
FredBGG
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2012, 09:17:19 PM »
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If it's got a (working) shutter and a (working) sync port it should work.

Will CFE lenses work with a Phase One Back when the lens is used in focal plane mode?

With FE lenses they won't as far as I know.
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Mr. Rib
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« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2012, 10:54:58 PM »
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If CFE lens is sitting on a 20x series camera and focal plane shutter is used, it basically acts as FE lens.
20x camera will work with FE lens and P1 back if you use the Kapture Group cable.
At least that would be 'theoretic' conclusions after my discussion with Keith / reading a lot about the issue.

PS
As funny as it may sound, it's possible to use both shutters simultaneously, although 'it's not recommended / should be avoided' (c) Hasselblad
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Douglas Fairbank
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Classic V, support for V system cameras in the UK


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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2012, 06:19:19 AM »
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Sorry to miss this, I was away. Reply sent via personal message.

For the benefit of the readers if you want to use the lens shutter set the 200 body to 'C' and not 'B'.

Douglas Fairbank www.classicv.co.uk
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Douglas Fairbank LRPS
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