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Author Topic: mounting rc papers  (Read 1746 times)
mstevensphoto
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« on: December 07, 2012, 08:04:46 AM »
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hi all,
   I don't have a laminator and have discovered that no one will touch my prints even if I triple promise that I understand that laminating can ruin the print and I'll just bring another if that happens. I very rarely need non-canvas things mounted so I can't really justify the laminator. currently I have a pair of 18x32 prints on Moab Slick Rock metalic. I did one for myself (thankfully) about 4 months ago and mounted it to gator with a generous coat of krylon spray. used a j roller to smooth and stick it. unfortunately the stupid thing has delaminated already. is there a method that will keep the print stuck? I've never found a spray adhesive that I can make work long term. what can I do that doesn't involve the purchase of a machine? anyone near denver want to charge me to mount these with a cold roller?
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bill t.
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 02:23:55 PM »
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The only thing that really worked for me was dry mounting, using careful technique and a "breathable" tissue that I see is no longer available.  Have lots of old RC prints hand mounted on foamcore with various transfer adhesive rolls, almost all of them developed bubbles after just a few months.  I assume it's just not possible to get adequate contact with hand burnishing.  No matter how you do it, the rigidity of RC papers demands a lot of technique to do good mounts when you are dealing with large pieces.
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smjphoto
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2012, 03:11:45 AM »
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I'm looking for the solution also...
I saw someone stongly recommending coda laminating film. When I was on their site, I saw preglued foam core boards available. Does anyone have any experience with these? Do you have to use a cold press for these also?
http://www.codamount.com/mountboards.htm

  Has anyone experimented with using a large heavy roller by hand on a flat surface as a substitute for a proper cold press?  Are the cheap eBay cold presses adequate for this, or a waste of money?
Thanks for any advice.
Stuart
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 03:24:20 AM by smjphoto » Logged
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2012, 05:13:10 AM »
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RC papers with the plain polyethylene barrier at the back are not uncommon. Polyethylene like more polyolefines has a bad surface for bonding. In the industry Corona treatment is used to create a better surface for bonding. If the RC paper got an anti-curl coating too on top of the PE at the back your chances for a mounting get much better. I think the difference shows when you can write on the back with more pen types and the writing can not be wiped off;  most likely an extra coating is applied. Do a tape test too.

--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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December 2012, 500+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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mstevensphoto
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« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2012, 11:35:02 AM »
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the paper in question is Moab Slick Rock Metallic, I can't get the stuff to stay glued to save my life.

I have used Coda laminates. The problem is that I don't have a laminator. For 5x7,8x10 and 11x14 I use their pre laminated styrene sheets and a j roller. it gives the smaller prints a lovely feel and sets me apart from costco. the HUGE drawback to Coda is that they murder me on shipping. Last time I ordered about $88 of backer boards and the less than brilliant shipping dept sent them in three different boxes for a total shipping cost of $78 - no one seemed to care when I pointed out that it was an asinine practice. The pieces would have easily fit in a paper reem sized box and shipped for $30 assuming no corporate discount from ups.

Mark
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bill t.
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« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2012, 12:05:47 PM »
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I've got one of these and it's more than usable although would want something better for regular production use.  Don't use it much anymore, but it's comforting to know it's there.  The one in the ad doesn't look exactly like the one I bought from the same supplier a few years ago, but I assume it's about the same quality level.

Yup, shipping!  I tend to gravitate to those suppliers who understand that it matters.
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mstevensphoto
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 05:20:26 PM »
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Bill, what's your preferred mounting film for that particular cold roller?
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bill t.
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 05:49:31 PM »
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It was Drytac "Sure Tac" IIRC.  Came in a roll wound emulsion-in, single release liner.  Wouldn't recommend it, but the tech support at the time suggested it was the best choice for RC papers and it did get the job done.  Exceedingly aggressive, instant bond, no way to backtrack if you got a bad start, took some skill to use correctly.  The overall level of difficulty with the kind of underwhelming manual roller led me to mounted canvas.  Just supporting the roll required a hacked-together support bar.  Before that I had used a large motorized machine with adhesive tissue supplied by the owner of the machine, who is unavailable for comment.  That worked pretty good, definitely wasn't Sure Tac.  Sounds like the Coda stuff is a superior choice.
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jerryrock
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 06:06:36 PM »
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I use 3M Scotch mounting adhesive. It comes in various size rolls, does not require a press, does not dry out, discolor or leech into the paper. I use it to mount 360 GSM RC paper with no problems.

http://www.amazon.com/3M-568-Positionable-Mounting-Adhesive/dp/B00023JK88
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Gerald J Skrocki
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bill t.
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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 06:44:39 PM »
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Anybody have long term reports on the 3M stuff?  Certainly looks nice and the price is much less than any other adhesive I have ever used.  I recall some less-than-pleased comments on thegrumble.com a few years ago about repositionable adhesives, but I think for a different product.

The 3M "sticky-back" transfer adhesive I used in the 70's would 100% fail in ugly, gummy, oozing ways after just a few years, but that was then and this is now.  Maybe things are better.  The Amazon reviews look positive, and one gal goes into a pretty deep usage writeup.
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Paul2660
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 06:10:05 AM »
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In my experience, PMA works on smaller prints, say 16 x 20 or smaller.  However on larger mounts, I have always had bubbling show up after about 6 months.  I agree it's an easy product to work with however.

For larger prints I still use spraymount.  Elmers has a product line, including a extra strong which is acid free.  So far I have had no issues with mounts on RC. 

If I still had access to press, I would still use that.  Beinfang's rag mount is an excellent solution for RC paper especially a pure gloss.

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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mstevensphoto
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 10:04:58 AM »
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I've had nearly a 100% failure rate with PMA in the 3-9 month range on any print over 11x14. same with spray mounts.
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Paul2660
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 01:12:40 PM »
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Have you tried the Elmers spray mount?  Super 77 from Scotch tends to be more prevalent, and I have it fail.  So far the Elmers Extra Strength has done well for me.  I recently had to tear one apart (due to other reasons) and was pleasantly surprised to see that that there were no bubbles.  By it's nature, Resin coated will be hard to stick, as the resin coating will be less prone to hold the spray adhesive as well. 

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
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mstevensphoto
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 01:27:44 PM »
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I've not tried Elmer's - which are you using?
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Paul2660
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2012, 01:32:58 PM »
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Here is a link showing the Elmers.  They make two different strengths, I only use the extra strong on the RC. 

http://http://www.dickblick.com/items/23720-1350/?clickTracking=true&wmcp=google&wmcid=items&wmckw=23720-1350&gclid=CKTGsqePmLQCFY9DMgod6T4AIg

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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LenR
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2012, 02:30:46 PM »
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If you want to use a spray have you tried these 2 products from 3M, Spray mount 77 or High Strength 99?
Follow the instructions for a really strong bond.
Personally I use a PSA and a laminator.
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Paul2660
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« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2012, 03:12:38 PM »
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Super 99 is not a good solution for a RC print as it lays down in a very large globs, not a fine mist like the super 77 (that is unless it has been totally reworked in the last  6 months) 

Super 77 has always been a weak link for me on RC, it's not as strong IMO as the Elmers product and it's not acid free. 

I agree that the best solution some form of a mount by a press.  I loved using the Beinfang 48 x 96 press and ragmount when I had that option.  Hard to beat.  Ragmout laid also is acid free, and lays down a thin layer of rag between the mount.  I found this very important when working with RC papers that were 270mil or thinner.  With the quality control on foam core not being that great, the thin layer of material helped to even out the mount.

Not a removable mount, but neither is spray mount.

Paul

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Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
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