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Author Topic: B+W printing with HP Z3200PS vs Canon IPF8400  (Read 5110 times)
felix5616
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« on: December 07, 2012, 02:42:44 PM »
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I would like to hear from anyone that has used both HP Z3200 and the new canon IPF8400 printer regarding their impressions of the 2 machine with respect to B+W printing quality, in terms of overall , etc, butprint quality on glossy and matte surfaces, toning B+W prints, perceived sharpness, tonal scale etc. Not really interested in print speed as i print for myself.
I am also interested in your overall experience in general between the 2 printers.
I have a Z3200 and it is a wonderful machine with respect to image quality, ease of use, and especially the profiler which i would loose on the canon.
I am contemplating switching to or adding a canon IPF 8400 printer
leo
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chichornio
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 07:17:08 PM »
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I would buy a second-hand z3100 and youll have the best of both worlds.
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Atlex.com
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2012, 01:02:05 PM »
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Truthfully, since HP is discontinuing most of the models, Canon's upgrades are just as good (if not better) than the previous models.  The Canon IPF8400 will be basically the same quality with exact same inks as the IPF8300.  It is a great printer and would recommend it in place of HP.

We have promotions going on with both brands if you're interested.
cwood@atlex.com
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PeterAit
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2012, 01:55:51 PM »
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Have you considered an Epson? Their advanced B&W mode gets a lot of great reviews, which I agree with.
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Peter
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Czornyj
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« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2012, 05:04:26 PM »
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Ernst published answer to your question a few days ago:
http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/message/4259
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felix5616
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« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2012, 06:58:28 PM »
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Decided to keep my Z3200. It has never let me down, the onboard spectra is great and it uses very little ink
leo
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chichornio
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2012, 07:48:32 PM »
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Decided to keep my Z3200. It has never let me down, the onboard spectra is great and it uses very little ink
leo

I would have made the same decision than you, but I think you can get the best of B&W printing on a z3200ps if you try using "custom made" icc profiles for this machine. Im not an expert in b&w printing, but I think people like Ernst Dinkla can give you a great help on that.
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Greggw
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 11:10:37 AM »
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I just bough my Z from HP and love it, According to who
I talked to at HP they were not planing on discontinuing any
of that series although some were out of stock on back order.
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Roscolo
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 12:22:52 PM »
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I have both ipf8300 and HP z3100. The black-and-white output on the z3100 is second to none. When I print black-and-white, it is always on the z3100.

I've heard good things about True Black-and-White plug-in by Bowhaus, but incredulously they STILL don't make it for Windows.
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deanwork
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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 09:57:21 PM »
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Yea, I have both the Canon and HP also. I still do most of my bw work on Matte paper with the HP when not using Piezogrpahy in an Epson.
The dmax on the HP is is like 1.8 or so on matte media and no highly permanent inkset can do that. However, for almost anything I've tested the Canon with TBW can equal the tonal quality and sharpness of the HP but NOT with with Canon driver, even with really good custom profiles from X-Rite.

Can anyone tell me if this 12 channel system of Hp printers with Vivera ink is going to survive into the future? I thought the line was over with forever. And they quit making them. Did I miss something? Are they selling Z3200s again?
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Atlex.com
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 09:12:21 AM »
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HP discontinued the Z3200 standard version but the PS version is the only one available in all sizes.  I haven't heard of any other models coming out from HP.
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Justan
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 10:06:29 AM »
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HP discontinued the Z3200 standard version but the PS version is the only one available in all sizes.  I haven't heard of any other models coming out from HP.

I searched the Altex.com site for z3200 and the results stated there was nothing at the site. I tried to browse for the same thing and again, nothing can be found.

Someone needs to do some work on the site if Altex does indeed sell these things.
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Czornyj
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 02:40:18 PM »
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However, for almost anything I've tested the Canon with TBW can equal the tonal quality and sharpness of the HP but NOT with with Canon driver, even with really good custom profiles from X-Rite.

John, thanks a lot for an interesting remark, I'd be glad to achieve higher dmax on matte papers.

May I ask how did you manage to get it in TBW? Did you get better dmax from the Canon driver (at the expense of tonal quality)? I'll try to experiment with TBW and other RIP solution for color prints.
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deanwork
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 06:34:28 PM »
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I'm sorry I didn't mean to suggest that I got the Z3100 dmax with the Canon with any software configuration. What I did get easily with TBW was the same totally neutral print color, and a wonderful totally linear tonal range with the 8300. None of these pigments equals the Vivera in for maximum black density. However....... for probably most things you aren't sensing a weak dmax with either the Canon or Epson inksets these days.

john

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abiggs
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« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2012, 05:38:47 AM »
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Ok, this is coming from a guy who has owned the Z3200 44" and also the iPF8300......

I could never get a smooth gradient on my Z3200, and I tried the built in profiling as well as the Advanced Profiling Solution. This drove me nuts about the Z3200. I absolutely loved some things about the printer overall, like the gloss optimizer for glossy prints and the built-in spectro, but my intention for that printer was to only use it for B&W prints on glossy papers and it fell short of my expectations. The Z3200 is the only printer on the market that has a 3 controls over toning in the printer driver (shadows, mid tones and highlights), and this intrigued me. No matter what I did with the profiling I could never get a smooth gradient. I did do a 1728 patch profile outside of the printer, and it did better than the built-in spectro, but it still fell short of my expectations. The drawbacks to the printer are well documented here, such as the slow speed (I don't care, but others might), roll loading from the rear of the unit and not-so-robust quality of printer stand, etc.

On my 8300 it just goes and goes and goes and goes. I love the output quality and it is my go-to printer for all B&W as well as color. I had a 9900 but had some issues with it and decided to part ways with it. The 9900 quality of output is superb, but I had different needs at the time. I do switch out paper types many times throughout the day and I didn't like having to switch the blacks around each time. Waste of time and ink.
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Andy Biggs
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brianrybolt
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« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2012, 10:46:00 AM »
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John, thanks a lot for an interesting remark, I'd be glad to achieve higher dmax on matte papers.

May I ask how did you manage to get it in TBW? Did you get better dmax from the Canon driver (at the expense of tonal quality)? I'll try to experiment with TBW and other RIP solution for color prints.

Hello,  I can not find anywhere what TBW means.  I've looked in acronym dictionaries to no avail.

Thanks,
Brian
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abiggs
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« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2012, 10:53:54 AM »
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True B&W, I suspect.

http://www.trueblackandwhite.com
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Andy Biggs
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smjphoto
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2012, 05:54:06 AM »
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Andy,
Are you using TBW or any rip for B&W? If not, are you using the canon monochrome printing mode, or are you printing in color mode?
I'm just starting to try to figure out B&W on an 8300 and really appreciate any and all insights. I've never really felt successful in the past with my previous epson printers, but I never used a rip or dedicated myself to truely solving the issues. I'm hoping to get a handle on it this time around.
Apologies to the OP if this is straying from the original question.
Stuart
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abiggs
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2012, 05:57:52 AM »
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Stuart, I have tried True B&W but for my pea brain I couldn't figure it all out. Seriously lacking any guidance, tutorials or even a place to start with that software.

On the 8300 I do both their monochrome mode as well as printing a toned B&W image through as a color image. Just depends on my mood.
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Andy Biggs
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chichornio
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« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2012, 08:41:41 AM »
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I could never get a smooth gradient on my Z3200, and I tried the built in profiling as well as the Advanced Profiling Solution.

Have you tried sending the file using the EWS? It must be a RGB 16bits tiff, but you should check that the file is being printed on grayscale. I had great output with better gradients than using PS or LR to print the file. Tha manual says that the printer is "truly" printing in 16bits (well... actually the conversion from 16 to 8 bits its done by the printer)
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