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Author Topic: matte lamination film recommendation - cold laminator  (Read 1458 times)
Roscolo
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« on: December 11, 2012, 12:25:46 PM »
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I have a series of prints that will be mounted to Dibond. Printed on HP ID Satin on HP z3100 and Canon ipf8300. I need to do a matte lamination over the print.

Looking for brand specific matte lamination film recommendations for use on a cold laminator from those with experience doing this.

Thanks
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John Nollendorfs
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 01:23:21 PM »
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Why not spray with vinyl acrylic you use for canvas' instead?
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Roscolo
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 01:41:58 PM »
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Why not spray with vinyl acrylic you use for canvas' instead?

Spray 36x48 prints on Satin photo paper? I shudder to think of all the crap that will get stuck to that. That's one of the reasons I'm going to film lamination for this job. I can laminate these prints in a fraction of the time it takes to spray. Just don't know if there is one film that is better than another. These will be hung in a busy hallway in a university, so I could see the stray backpack or something possibly rubbing against them at some point, so I would like to use a film that may offer a little more protection.
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 03:45:38 PM »
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Seal,Print Shield standard UV.
The luster has got a nice sheen to it. The matte is a little too milky for my taste.
Get some samples and try them out.
My second machine has a hot roll and with it I can do canvas. The product is Seals Print Guard Luster.
Stuff is tuff as nails but makes the canvas/lamite pretty thick and harder to stretch if that is how you mount it.
The laminate works pretty good over canvas when mounting on Dibond or gatorboard. Still much easier to spray.

To address your spray/crud issue. I have an additional spray system to spray solvents. (Clearstar FA)
Pour your material through a strainer and your ready to go.
Pin the print onto an angled backboard and spray. Do not lay the print flat to spray.
Should be clean as a whistle.
Do not try and use the same gun for water based and solvent material,you will be asking for trouble.
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Roscolo
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 04:04:14 PM »
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Seal,Print Shield standard UV.
The luster has got a nice sheen to it. The matte is a little too milky for my taste.

To address your spray/crud issue. I have an additional spray system to spray solvents. (Clearstar FA)
Pour your material through a strainer and your ready to go.
Pin the print onto an angled backboard and spray. Do not lay the print flat to spray.
Should be clean as a whistle.
Do not try and use the same gun for water based and solvent material,you will be asking for trouble.

Thanks. I hear you. I think milky is what they want, so that should do the trick.

Regarding spraying, I wasn't referring to crud in the sprayer, I filter mine and that's not a problem. I was referring to crud in the air finding it's way onto the surface while it's wet.
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 04:30:34 PM »
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Stand it up to spray and you eliminate that problem,completely.
Solvent dries in less then a minute which is why we use solvent.(On photo papers.)
A water based spray can take 10 minutes to dry and will not give you the quality finish you are looking for on a photo paper. Some guys do it with ok results  but its just takes to long to dry for me.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 04:38:02 PM by Dan Berg » Logged

Roscolo
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 05:40:01 PM »
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I hear ya. I use Clearshield sometimes. I like it, but I don't want to be huffing that stuff. Maybe if I had a dedicated space just for spraying...I could build a spray booth, but that expense pays for the laminator right there. Laminator just seems cleaner, faster, more consistent and cheaper. I'm going to try the Seal Print Shield you recommended.

Thanks
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bill t.
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 06:05:56 PM »
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With spray you can flick off the dust between thin coats, or even dig it out from under several coats.  With laminates, one little missed piece and you're dead.  A real spray booth is at the top of my list 2013.
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Johnny_Boy
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 07:46:37 PM »
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I agree with what Bill said above. I tried to do face mounting and laminating with film many times and it takes more effort to ensure that the surface and the working area is absolutely clean, otherwise the little specks cause craters. Spraying (vertically) is more forgiving.

Dan, for paper, you are using solvent. What about for canvas? water based or solvent? I am looking to speed up my production speed, so cutting down on the drying time will be awesome.   
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2012, 04:15:17 AM »
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Gallery wraps get Glamor II or Timeless. I like the Glarmor product better and prefer the final finish and flexibility it gives the canvas.
It is also not as finiky to spray as the Timeless. (Bubbles in Timeless if coated to heavy.)
I use the clearstar for matte and photo papers and on canvases that get mounted flat to Gatorboard or Dibond.
I have tried the Clearstar product on canvas for my gallery wraps but got cracking at the edges and corners every single time,unusable in my estimation.

I have used the water based products on matte paper prints with acceptable results.
When sprayed the water based products do not have the same cleanliness and clarity on gloss papers like metallic,pictorico white film or the baryta's.
 No matter how much you strain the water based you are not going to get the same results as a crystal clear solvent finish.
I am spraying a gloss Clearstar so it does not have the silica for flattening that my mixture of Timeless and Glamor have. (To be fair.)
Clearstar is somewhat pricy at $100 a gallon, but it just plain works for the flat prints so I use it.
Have been many threads here about other solvent finishes so their are alternatives.

Agree with everyone about film laminating being tricky if not downright difficult on photo glossy papers. Mattes laminate pretty easy except it destroys the look of the fine matte papers. IMO
I am all set up here to do facemounting to acrylics and after months of testing elected to not sell the products.
Just too hard to get dust free perfect results,and they have to be perfect.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 04:35:47 AM by Dan Berg » Logged

Roscolo
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 01:10:02 PM »
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Well, now you have me thinking twice about laminating. Maybe I'll give the spray a go. Still gonna have to use the laminator to mount the prints, though.
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Roscolo
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 02:20:55 PM »
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@ Dan Berg: What gun are you spraying the Clearstar FA with? I've been using just the Wagner cheap gun for spraying canvas prints flat on the floor with perfect results. Don't know how well this gun would spray 36x48 prints vertically. Seems like it would be asking for runs. But everything I have sprayed has been water based coating.
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 03:02:05 PM »
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@ Dan Berg: What gun are you spraying the Clearstar FA with? I've been using just the Wagner cheap gun for spraying canvas prints flat on the floor with perfect results. Don't know how well this gun would spray 36x48 prints vertically. Seems like it would be asking for runs. But everything I have sprayed has been water based coating.
Your going to hate me but you did ask.
I have 4 Bink Mach I HVLP setups.
2 for spraying prints the other 2 are for furniture catalized sealer and topcoat finishes.
 Each one dedicated for a specific finish. No mixing finishes between setups.
I use an HVLP gun with gravity feed cup for all water based finishes for canvas.
I use another Mach I HVLP gun with attached pressure pot for Clearstar solvent.
I leave that product in the pot all the time and just back flush the material out of the gun after use. Other then the tip no cleaning required.
Since it is the gloss material it takes very little to no agitation before spraying.
Pressure pot with 2 line hose,regulator and Mach I HVLP gun is about $700 per setup. Cup gun setup is about half that.
Requires a good filtered air system. My main air compressor in the shop is a 5hp Ingersol Rand although one half that size would do.

Way overkill for spraying prints but then again for a cabinetry business this is pretty much standard stuff.
Once you spray with one of these you will never go back.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 03:12:00 PM by Dan Berg » Logged

Roscolo
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 05:30:48 PM »
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Ouch. Well, it's not that bad considering 2 rolls of laminate film cost as much as the spray gun set up. Thanks for all the info. Now I can make an informed decision. I'll have the laminator anyway to do the mounting, so it won't be that big of a deal to do "either / or". The biggest problem with spraying is having a place to spray. I'm getting ready to build a shop, so maybe I'll incorporate a spray area. Thanks again.
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LenR
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2012, 02:32:52 PM »
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Hi Roscolo,
Are you going to frame it when you're done?
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