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Author Topic: Workflow Sequence: Start With Silver Effex Pro or Lightoom 4?  (Read 1471 times)
JimAscher
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« on: December 16, 2012, 01:29:09 PM »
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I am basically an unimaginative sort.  I cannot previsualize a black-and-white photo ala Ansel Adams then strive to realize my previsualization in my editing.  Rather, my fondness for Silver Effex Pro stems from my ability to run my photo through all the SEP presets to realize somewhat the range of the photo's visual potential.  My query here is what workflow sequence is preferable that I follow?  Do I process the photo first in its raw form utilizing Lightroom 4's excellent basic sliders, then pass it on to SEP?  Or do I process the initial raw photo first in SEP, then when I've narrowed it down aesthetically to my preferred SEP preset do I pass it on to LR4 for fine-tuning with the basic LR sliders?  Chicken or egg?  Or do I do both?  Seems a bit cumbersome that way, but to get a satisfying final photo, I guess it's ultimately necessary to employ multiple means.  Anyway, any thoughts from those more (or less) expert and experienced than I would be appreciated.
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 01:34:32 PM »
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Do as much of the processing at the raw stage as you can. It is truly non destructive, with Virtual Copies you can experiment with virtually no overhead. The degree of control is amazing in LR. This video will give you an idea:

http://mulita.com/blog/?p=1244
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Andrew Rodney
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JimAscher
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 03:14:59 PM »
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Do as much of the processing at the raw stage as you can. It is truly non destructive, with Virtual Copies you can experiment with virtually no overhead. The degree of control is amazing in LR. This video will give you an idea:

http://mulita.com/blog/?p=1244

Andrew;  Appreciate your advice -- to begin with the raw processing -- which was my initial inclination.  The Jardine tutorial, which I acquired and benefited from when it first came out, I recall as being more orientated toward Photoshop than Lightroom.  And, of course, George did it before Lightroom 4 was released.  Anyway, thanks again for your advice.  Jim
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Alan Goldhammer
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2012, 03:29:50 PM »
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George has a LR4 tutorial out and it's complimentary of the one that LuLa offers.  It does go into certain subjects in a little more depth.

Alan
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JimAscher
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 03:37:42 PM »
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George has a LR4 tutorial out and it's complimentary of the one that LuLa offers.  It does go into certain subjects in a little more depth.

Alan

Alan:  George has a recent free Lightroom 4 tutorial that covers quite well what i will primarily be using LR4 for.  http://mulita.com/training/hns-r/  Thanks, and regards, Jim
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jrsforums
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2012, 06:27:57 PM »
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I would also recommend Jardine's free & fee tutorial.

I would also say that I follow George Jardine's recommendation of letting you eye be your guide....don't depend on formulas and presets...every image is different.

However, presets, from others, are a good learning tool....to see what others have done to get certain looks....or to use as a base to work from.

Many of the presets are offer free.  Some have a moderate charge; some are at ripoff prices(for what they really offer....which is nothing you could not do yourself).

Google can be your friend here....search for presets.

If you don't find what you need, I can say that I picked up some from Xequals http://x-equals.com/blog/category/lightroom/presets/ and they seem to be quite nice.

John
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JimAscher
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2012, 07:04:12 PM »
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John:  Many thanks for pointing me to a source of more presets.  It does seem to offer some interesting possibilities.  However, my current SEP2 presets I believe are all I really need for present.  And even those I've winnowed down considerably as "Favorites" with some "Custom" ones added from the previous version of SEP.  All I really need is a fairly broad sampling of what's possible for a given photo.  I do appreciate your recommendations.  Jim
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jrsforums
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2012, 07:19:34 PM »
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John:  Many thanks for pointing me to a source of more presets.  It does seem to offer some interesting possibilities.  However, my current SEP2 presets I believe are all I really need for present.  And even those I've winnowed down considerably as "Favorites" with some "Custom" ones added from the previous version of SEP.  All I really need is a fairly broad sampling of what's possible for a given photo.  I do appreciate your recommendations.  Jim

If you have LR, you really do not need SEP. There is nothing that can be done in SEP that cannot be done in LR.

Since you seem to depend on presets, I was pointing out possible LR alternatives.  With them, you could stay in LR and your dilemma of what to do in LR and what to do in SEP would be solved.  :-)

I do know that what you know is what is easiest...and if you are happy, that's great.

BTW...if you were not using LR, just Photoshop, SEP has a real benefit.  It just has no benefit vs. LR....once you REALLY learn all tat LR can do.

Best....John
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JimAscher
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2012, 07:34:43 PM »
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If you have LR, you really do not need SEP. There is nothing that can be done in SEP that cannot be done in LR.

Since you seem to depend on presets, I was pointing out possible LR alternatives.  With them, you could stay in LR and your dilemma of what to do in LR and what to do in SEP would be solved.  :-)

I do know that what you know is what is easiest...and if you are happy, that's great.

BTW...if you were not using LR, just Photoshop, SEP has a real benefit.  It just has no benefit vs. LR....once you REALLY learn all tat LR can do.

Best....John

John:  I use (and even rely on) a fairly broad spectrum of processing software. DxO Pro, Corner Fix and Photoshop, in addition to Lightroom and SEP.  I like Lightroom for its cataloging function and presets, Photoshop for panoramic shots, with DxO and Corner Fix being self explanatory.  Jumping around between these applications I have found not that difficult.  And I think I do have some idea of the full range of LR assets.  I just don't like them that much.  I've struggled with the LR learning curve for some time, and decided reluctantly it's not for me.  Others, I know, love it, and do well by it.  Thanks again.  Jim 
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jrsforums
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2012, 10:41:35 PM »
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John:  I use (and even rely on) a fairly broad spectrum of processing software. DxO Pro, Corner Fix and Photoshop, in addition to Lightroom and SEP.  I like Lightroom for its cataloging function and presets, Photoshop for panoramic shots, with DxO and Corner Fix being self explanatory.  Jumping around between these applications I have found not that difficult.  And I think I do have some idea of the full range of LR assets.  I just don't like them that much.  I've struggled with the LR learning curve for some time, and decided reluctantly it's not for me.  Others, I know, love it, and do well by it.  Thanks again.  Jim 

Hey...didn't mean to upset you.

You use what works for you.  I kinda stick with the KISS method.

Btw...I think the DNG flat field LR plugin is a potential replacement for Corner Fix....and sits in a consistent workflow. I would lean toward it, but do not usually experience the problem.
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JimAscher
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 09:06:57 AM »
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Hey...didn't mean to upset you.

You use what works for you.  I kinda stick with the KISS method.

Btw...I think the DNG flat field LR plugin is a potential replacement for Corner Fix....and sits in a consistent workflow. I would lean toward it, but do not usually experience the problem.

Hey, John, you didn't upset me at all!  Your advice has been (and still is) very welcome.  I didn't know about the DNG flat field plug-in.  Working with DNG, it may be very similar to Corner Fix, which also works with DNG.  I will definitely have to give it a try, although I've already calibrated my two wide-angle Voigtlander lenses for Corner Fix.  By the way, I misstated in my last posting the following (with correction):

"I like Lightroom for its cataloging function and (SEP for its) presets, Photoshop for panoramic shots, with DxO and Corner Fix being self explanatory."

Thanks again, Jim
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2012, 09:08:43 AM »
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If you have LR, you really do not need SEP. There is nothing that can be done in SEP that cannot be done in LR.

It's true and why I sent the Jardine link about various B&W conversion methods.
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Andrew Rodney
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jrsforums
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 09:50:22 AM »
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Hey, John, you didn't upset me at all!  Your advice has been (and still is) very welcome.  I didn't know about the DNG flat field plug-in.  Working with DNG, it may be very similar to Corner Fix, which also works with DNG.  I will definitely have to give it a try, although I've already calibrated my two wide-angle Voigtlander lenses for Corner Fix.  By the way, I misstated in my last posting the following (with correction):

"I like Lightroom for its cataloging function and (SEP for its) presets, Photoshop for panoramic shots, with DxO and Corner Fix being self explanatory."

Thanks again, Jim

LR is MUCH more than cataloging.  In LR4, it is a full function post procssing development system...to the point that many are finding that for photographic work they can process 95% in LR....going to Photoshop or plugins (Photomatix, for example (great 'Merge to 32 bit', BTW) for special functions or for "fine grain" adjustments.

If you had problems in the past, I highly recommend you invest the $25. and time to view Jardine's development tutorial http://mulita.com/blog/?page_id=724

John
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JimAscher
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 10:12:39 AM »
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LR is MUCH more than cataloging.  In LR4, it is a full function post procssing development system...to the point that many are finding that for photographic work they can process 95% in LR....going to Photoshop or plugins (Photomatix, for example (great 'Merge to 32 bit', BTW) for special functions or for "fine grain" adjustments.

If you had problems in the past, I highly recommend you invest the $25. and time to view Jardine's development tutorial http://mulita.com/blog/?page_id=724

John

John: I have Jardine's excellent tutorial for Lightroom 3 (as well as the LuLa one) and I am a bit loathe to invest further in more such tutorials for LR 4, when I am (perversely?) seeking to MINIMIZE my development of photos from scratch rather than, as I've previously indicated, my intent is to explore the possibilities for development through the excellent SEP presets, choose one or two (or three), then fine tune a bit from there.  My whole premise (and limitation) as stated at the outset, is that I am self-confessedly unimaginative.  I take photos of scenes and objects I believe have interest and potential, then (to characterize the matter quite simplistically) let the SEP presets take over from there!  Probably, now, refining the raw image first with LR4's new Basic sliders.  I know I possibly risk excommunication from the LR fold, but I must march to my interior drummer's beat.  (Have I mixed metaphors somewhat there?)  Regards, and thanks, again.  Jim
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