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Author Topic: When will LR's GUI evolve?  (Read 4796 times)
Phil Indeblanc
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« on: December 17, 2012, 03:14:52 PM »
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LR has done lots on the dev end and it is a sold application.  I do wish the interface stregths would grow...In particular 2 main features that would make things a MUCH better experience:
1. Allow the second window to scale
2. Allow the tool and info panels in both Library and Dev mode to dock outside its locked in interface.
This #2 would really help, as you can see the metadata while in develop mode in a separate window you can drag to the second scaled window to allow custom view settings.

It has done so much in other areas, and has ironed them out well with good testing, and all is solid, and robust....

I can't see another upgrade without the gui being addressed for us to do more with some flexibility to make things smoother for those that can gain from it.
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Simon Garrett
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 03:30:18 PM »
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I guess I disagree with you, Phil, on both points!

1. I don't think I've ever wanted the second window to scale.  I invariably use LR maximised, whatever size screen I'm using, and that goes for both main and second window.
2. I really like the panels locked where they are.  I hide them, sometimes, but I like the idea that when they're visible they're always in the same place.  I find that consistency helpful. 

We all have different styles and preferences, but they wouldn't be a priority for me.  In fact, if either of those features is introduced, I'd want it to be optional, and done in such a way that I can't invoke them by mistake - more than just a single keystroke. 
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 03:37:19 PM »
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Do you have dual monitors?


I agree to make it a option and clearly defined.

But to disagree on having the option I don't understand.
I can accept it not being a priority for you.

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Simon Garrett
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2012, 01:59:53 AM »
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Yes I have dual monitors. 

I don't mind if your suggestions are there as options, but my point was that I would prefer they are not turned on/off by single key strokes. 

LR is already somewhat confusing in having a lot of single key strokes that change the view and hide things.  F, L, J, T...  On the Adobe forum (http://forums.adobe.com/community/lightroom?view=discussions) just about every day there is a desparate cry for help from someone that has "lost" some functionality by an inadvertant key stroke. 

The functions you describe are (IMHO) options that one either wants or doesn't want.  I mean: you would turn those options on (all or most of the time, perhaps).  I'd turn them off (all the time).  Hence my suggestion NOT to have another single-key option that would confuse the heck out of new users, but an option to set in Edit... Preferences...

Generally I find the UI pretty good once one is used to it.  I find it much easier to use and much smoother than Photoshop.  I'd like a few more features (ideally so I'd never have to use Photoshop, and can stay in LR's non-destructive environment, and without creating huge tif files) but the UI is fine for me. 
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 03:15:11 AM »
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I'd agree with point 1. Not having the usual interface controls (closing resizing etc) on a window does seem an oversight.

The second issue is a bit more debatable.
I think Adobe got LR's interface absolutely right from day one. Changing that to a completely customisable format with movable panels might suit some people, but, as Simon says, might lead to a lot of confusion for less capable users.
I think there's more important features to add to LR, than messing around with an already solid GUI.
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Bryan Conner
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 04:41:32 AM »
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I would love to be able to undock the panels and drag them to my second monitor the same way that I have in Photoshop.  But, this is not a big deal to me, I have gotten used to the current set up.  Heck, if I had the option to do so, I could not be sure that I would not leave it like it currently is...you know, after trying it.  I do not think it is a bad idea to have the option though.
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2012, 04:49:27 AM »
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I find the "Photoshop way" to be annoying and frustrating. I hope that Lightroom never goes there: one reason that I have stuck with Lightroom is that the alternatives that I have tried (Photoshop, DXO,...) hurts my brain.

That being said, there are some frustrations in Lightroom as well. I often spend too much time hunting for some option/function. I wish Lightroom followed the windows conventions more closely (at least when used on Windows) and exposed all of its functions in the menu bar in some meaningful hierachical fashion. Then I would be fairly certain that the option was atleast somewhere in the menubar, instead of having to wade through all of the screens.

I think it is a major fail that you have to ask on a discussion forum to figure out how to make the image fullscreen in a photo editor.

-h
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NikoJorj
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« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2012, 06:43:55 AM »
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1. Allow the second window to scale
Yes, it could be nice when one works with 2 big monitors.
It would definitely not be a priority imho, as when I'm working in LR, it's fast enough I don't do anything else.

Quote
2. Allow the tool and info panels in both Library and Dev mode to dock outside its locked in interface.
Pleaaaase, no!  Grin
With current wide-aspect monitors, having the palettes on the sides of the image is pretty well optimal.
And it would make a clean and easy UI into a photoshopic mess. Wink
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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mac_paolo
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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2012, 07:11:22 AM »
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I just agree with the first point, but please NEVER ask for floating palettes! I really can't stand them.
And yes, I do have a (large) second monitor as well Smiley

Lightroom 4 has been a better refinement for the previous versions, maybe, who knows, Lightroom 5 will show a new look. Smiley
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Glenn NK
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2012, 11:49:45 AM »
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LR is already somewhat confusing in having a lot of single key strokes that change the view and hide things.  F, L, J, T...  On the Adobe forum (http://forums.adobe.com/community/lightroom?view=discussions) just about every day there is a desperate cry for help from someone that has "lost" some functionality by an inadvertant key stroke. 


For me, the biggest single problem with LR is hitting the wrong key and losing something.

What I'd really like in the UI is a help key that lists all the shortcut keys for easy reference (without searching on the net or digging into my LR book).

Glenn
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john beardsworth
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2012, 11:58:45 AM »
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Ctrl / on PC, Cmd / on Mac
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sertsa
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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2012, 12:48:32 PM »
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Ctrl / on PC, Cmd / on Mac

Thank you JohnBeardy!!!!  Best Lightroom tip in awhile.
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Glenn NK
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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2012, 06:22:36 PM »
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Ctrl / on PC, Cmd / on Mac

Yes, good tip - now if I can just remember Ctrl / 

OTOH, the "Help" command at the top is so universal . . .

And the one letter "abbreviations" are interesting.

S for soft proofing makes some sense,
L for lights is good
T for toolbar is good

But then we have:

R = crop mode
Q = spot mode
M = graduated filter
K = adjustment brush
D = loupe view

Glenn
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2012, 06:47:41 PM »
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I bring up the panels for a couple reasons:

Often I find myself in DEV mode, and I see that I NEED the metadata or some feature that the panel is only available when switched in Library mode. Perhaps there is a function issue that this maybe hard to do, I don't know? but it sure would be handy as I work and need things to lookup. When in DEV mode, I wanted the file size, and to see a few other things.

I also find myself scrolling so much between tone curve, then back up, and down, minimize, expand...OOf!!, I wish they were simply in front of me (on my 2nd screen. I use two large screens), and having the panels on a second screen just frees up/expands the working image, and not having to repeatedly scroll would really help!


Niko, Whats wrong with the panels in Photoshop? They are off the image, and more detail work space. Is Photoshop complex? YES! LR doesn't have to be, but sure can offer an option to setup workspace.

Yes, with a Lock feature to both. And from the looks here....specially a prompt if you want to dock panels :-)
Very understandable precautions, but not having the option...not so understandable.

I think these options become more understood, and prevalent,  when you realize some folks spend 50% or more of work days in front of one app!  Eventually you evolve, your efficiency becomes dependent on the interface.

When you see it limits your ability, you get a bit frustrated..specially when you see other apps ability to do such "global" changes. while this very advanced app is locked it.

I had forgotten about that Ctl?, yes, thanks!

And Glenn....It took me a bit to get over C not equaling Crop, M, etc...I still fumble with it at times as I do use PShop pretty much hand in hand with LR
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 11:14:43 PM by Phil Indeblanc » Logged

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Rhossydd
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 03:02:41 AM »
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and not having to repeatedly scroll would really help!
Have you tried using 'solo mode' ? so one panel auto closes as you select the next one ? That reduces scrolling a lot.
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Schewe
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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2012, 04:03:06 PM »
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1. Allow the second window to scale
2. Allow the tool and info panels in both Library and Dev mode to dock outside its locked in interface.

Cold day in hell...

The whole UI design in LR is based on a single window interface (SWI) which means everything is in a single window. This was a conscience design decision specifically to avoid the pallet'itis that Photoshop (and other Adobe apps) suffer from. In the case of the second display window, the reason it can't be resized is because, well, it's an extension of the main window. In the case of the panels in the modules being "torn off", that's something that would require a massive rewrite of the UI code and I really REALLY don't think that would EVER happen (nor would I personally want it to).

Lightroom is what it is...and wishing it wasn't won't get you too far. You are better off not fighting the UI and just learn to use it.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2012, 05:19:41 PM »
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Yes, I tried th "solo mode", but it has been some time. I'll look to enable it.

Cold day in HELL!?   That is rather extreme for an Option that would increase efficiency.

The reason people don't like panels/tools in Photoshop is because they don't know what half of them do. They are overwhelmed...

This is NOT what Photoshop suffers from. Its some users not comfortable in PS that suffer from.  Adobe Acrobat and InDesign, (the others I often use) suffer from this?  Well maybe you should be asking for an OPTION to lock these panles in some cohesive way you see fit. That would be a sollution, not to go a$$ backwards and do the same assanign thing on the opposite end of the spectrum!

I generally enjoy and often agree with you on many discussions of quality (I think I remember much dialogue in MF Db and maybe C1 sections).

 I'm not a noob, I processed my E6 films, 8x10 baths, plenty others for years, but I am the last person to say it is MY way or a Cold Day in Hell. Complacency is the root of degradation.  That just sounds like fear of the unknown...rather unwilling to know...because "the unknown" is something we actually know and see it within LR just about everywhere...it is called having the option.  Imagine you DIDN'T have a DUAL screen option. Just becasue it is supposed to be called and extension, doesn't mean it can't be scaled.  It surely wouldn't take a Fletcher glass cutter to trim that window down.  And if someone wants to have panels unlocked, they should be able to go into preferences to enable panles to unlock. Then another step that would allow you to move panels.


Maybe you can Schewe it off as "Not a priority", but to lock it for a cold day in hell is rather ridiculous.  If I'm not mistaken, you consulted with LR developing. Maybe I have you mixed up with someone else. But I think they would be making a rudimentary mistake if they don't imply such options in the future.

Lets make a list:  Besides support for the next favorite camera...What upgrades would you see LR make? 

  • Slider keys a bit larger? I can see the need for that.
  • Allowing the list of Keywords to be added into a Keyword preset?(Is this already there and I don't see it?)
  • Custom background colors to decode between Lib and Dev and other modes?
  • Better processing
  • Lens correction with lume (ala C1)?

Those would be MY suggestions besdies the scaling 2nd window and the Panels docking


Maybe LR was designed for folks who didn't know how to use photoshop. Great or professional photographers not knowing Photoshop, but needed to switch to digital. Maybe that was the root of the software. Fine.  But make no mistake, that scope of LR users has changed VERY DRASTICALLY with in the last 3-4 years. So giving the option would not only satisfy the folks that are set in their ways, vs those that welcome options....better yet, demand it.
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James R
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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2012, 05:45:38 PM »
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I would like LR to take a page from Capture One Pro and allow the photographer to set up each panel to represent how he/she works.  The ability to add Library tools to the Develop Panel would be helpful.  I would also like to include a grid view within the Dev Mod, rather than having to rely on the film strip.
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2012, 05:52:39 PM »
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...Lightroom is what it is...and wishing it wasn't won't get you too far. You are better off not fighting the UI and just learn to use it...

Come on Phil - stop tilting at windmills.   Roll Eyes
If you learn what Lightroom CAN do you may be surprised at just how robust and functional it really is.

Tony Jay
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 05:57:25 PM by Tony Jay » Logged
Adele
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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2012, 06:22:44 PM »
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Phil, You can see the metadata for each image while in the Develop Module.  Go to the View Menu at the top of the screen, and select "View Options".  You can set the options to show in each of  "Loupe View 1" and "Loupe View 2".  Each view allows you to show 3 different sets of information, and there are over 30 choices to choose from (some have multiple pieces of metadata).  Dimensions, Common Photo Settings, Filename, Exposure Bias are among the many options.  Use the I (eye) key to do a three way toggle of what to show (View 1, View 2, None).
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