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Author Topic: When will LR's GUI evolve?  (Read 4902 times)
Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2012, 07:05:52 PM »
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Thanks Adele,
I use those features and views to get the info I need mostly. What I and James (thank goodness one other person so far :-), are saying is to see and USE some of the features across by simply having the panels one uses most to be able to stay open and docked. It would be more productive and for those who walk and chew gum can take care of things. I use two30" screens, I have plenty real estate to have my main image nice clutter free and large, while my grid view(scalable I hope) is on the second screen up against my panels.  Is this some new radical ship in working?  I have used such method since the day Matrox Dualhead video cards were available. Using large 24" Sony CRT or SUN monitors next to each other. Come on folks! Where you been?  Did you just pick up a DSLR for the first time without ANY previous computer knowledge or experience?! !! Where is that WINDMILL!!!?  Why are we so stuck to be accepting of what is fed to us? Is change so bad? Is Adobe THAT busy? They may as well lay off another 2K workers. WINDMILL PLEASE! :-)

You crack me up Tony...That is a good idiom(looked it up)!

I'm not saying anything bad. Nor am I saying anything radically different from what Adobe has done in the past to improve. As well as many other apps that are so strong as they remain Flexible to the users workflow.
    I'm hoping to see a strong flexibility in the next release of LR v5. It should be coming out of its "safe and infant growth period" by v5. It is now 64xfaster, stable and rather fine tuned.  I'm not saying for it to change as some apps do and commit suicide. These changes I speak of would be UNDETECTED for someone not looking for it. But can be opted to do so in Preferences. This makes an underlying power move. It would also cover its base on the workflow/User flexibility of other apps advantage.

What would you think I should learn in LR?  What do you think I don't know?

(side notes:I tried the Solo mode again, and its time consuming. Slows me down.)
I'll also share with you what I didn't know of LR yesterday....I now see that it can handle more files than I initially thought.
Some features we don't use regularly and forget where they are, is not what I mean.



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Schewe
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« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2012, 09:55:44 PM »
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Maybe you can Schewe it off as "Not a priority", but to lock it for a cold day in hell is rather ridiculous.  If I'm not mistaken, you consulted with LR developing. Maybe I have you mixed up with someone else. But I think they would be making a rudimentary mistake if they don't imply such options in the future.

Yes...I was involved with the development of Shadowland (AKA Lightroom). You can read about the early development in THE SHADOWLAND/LIGHTROOM DEVELOPMENT STORY. The founding engineer was Mark Hamburg, the #2 engineer to work on Photoshop and he was predisposed to develop an application that was as anti-Photoshop as he could (and did). His design intent was to intentionally NOT offer tear-off anything...which is why I can pretty much say it'll be a cold day in hell.

Again, the code, as written, is designed away from palettes and it would be a major effort to reviseľand something I'm sure won't happen because the use case for floating palettes is simply not strong enough...there are far more important issues such as image quality and performance that rate higher. So, I'll just tell you that you would be better off not wishing on a star and develop your workflow based on what LR can do, not hoping for something that LR will prolly never do.
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Glenn NK
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« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2012, 12:02:56 AM »
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The reason people don't like panels/tools in Photoshop is because they don't know what half of them do. They are overwhelmed...


Maybe they have the wrong software.

OTOH I know of a moderator elsewhere that doesn't like Lightroom and all indications are that it's because he expected it to be like CS.  Wink

He harped (bithced) about the possibility of losing the xmp files.  Geez, using LR from version 1, I've deleted a few xmp's and lost RAWs and whole directories but never lost an xmp.  Grin  Besides, I can make another one with a few keystrokes or so.

But I'm still not sold on the choice of the single letter shortcuts in LR.

Glenn
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JRSmit
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« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2012, 12:15:44 AM »
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Cold day in hell...

The whole UI design in LR is based on a single window interface (SWI) which means everything is in a single window. This was a conscience design decision specifically to avoid the pallet'itis that Photoshop (and other Adobe apps) suffer from. In the case of the second display window, the reason it can't be resized is because, well, it's an extension of the main window. In the case of the panels in the modules being "torn off", that's something that would require a massive rewrite of the UI code and I really REALLY don't think that would EVER happen (nor would I personally want it to).

Lightroom is what it is...and wishing it wasn't won't get you too far. You are better off not fighting the UI and just learn to use it.
Second this, i find it a strength of LR that the entire set of functionality is organised in modules and uses one UI structure for all modules. Makes it easy accessible, and once you get the hold of it very efficient. I present my students an overview of all one can do with LR , they go wauw, and then i state that you can start at the beginning, the constant UI structure being a key element. All thusfar agree once exposed to the working of LR.
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« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2012, 04:10:26 AM »
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The whole UI design in LR is based on a single window interface (SWI) which means everything is in a single window. .... In the case of the second display window, the reason it can't be resized is because, well, it's an extension of the main window.
Not sure that makes much sense.

The problem with the second monitor support is that it doesn't conform to the usual OS UI conventions. It always stays full screen, regardless of if the main window is resized. This behaviour might be acceptable for games, but it's simply wrong for photo applications.

I think it's quite reasonable to expect quality productive applications like LR to conform to OS standards of behaviour.
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mac_paolo
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« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2012, 04:24:44 AM »
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Phil, to me the floating palettes option would be a severe step back, performance-wise.
Maybe the hell hasn't frozen yet, but there's a reason why the majority of Lightroom users are not willing to support your proposal.
This time I have to agree with Jeff.
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2012, 04:48:31 AM »
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You crack me up Tony...That is a good idiom(looked it up)!

Well I'm glad you like my use of idioms anyway Phil.
Bottom line of course is that in the short term Lightroom won't change.
Some of your thoughts (wishes) may get a look in in future releases but the basic architecture of the software seems fixed for the duration for the reasons that Jeff elaborates on.

Tony Jay
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NikoJorj
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« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2012, 09:29:04 AM »
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[...] allow the photographer to set up each panel to represent how he/she works.  [...] I would also like to include a grid view within the Dev Mod, rather than having to rely on the film strip.
These two are already there : collapse the panels and panel sections you don't use and expand the rest (or use solo mode instead), and for a grid view in Develop module the 2nd screen does it well.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2012, 04:47:30 PM »
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The secondary display DOES scale!!!

goto:
Window/Secondary display/
Uncheck Full screen!!

It's all about dialogue :-)
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2012, 05:59:23 PM »
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The secondary display DOES scale!!!
Yes, but it doesn't conform to OS UI conventions.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2012, 06:29:10 PM »
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you mean have a max, scale and minimize click option?  I think this functions, but OS UI, I don't know if that would give us more functionality.
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2012, 02:02:58 AM »
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I think this functions,
It doesn't. There's only a close box.
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2012, 08:37:59 AM »
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It doesn't. There's only a close box.
But if you have unchecked the Full Screen button, then you can do all the standard rescaling, by dragging corners or sides to make the second screen window any size or shape you want. The only thing missing is the Windows "Restore Down" button next to the "Close Window" button.

So yes, it might be nice to add that button and have it do the same as unchecking the "Full Screen" button, but except for the extra step, there doesn't seem to be any functionality lost from the way a standard Windows app works.

And for those of you who think PS is superior in this respect, I just checked my CS6, which has selected panels on the second monitor. The second monitor panels don't have the "Restore Down" button either.
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2012, 08:49:13 AM »
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The only thing missing is the Windows "Restore Down" button next to the "Close Window" button.
No, it's also missing the maximise option, all there is a close box. It's just shabby design not conforming to UI standards.
Quote
And for those of you who think PS is superior in this respect, I just checked my CS6, which has selected panels on the second monitor. The second monitor panels don't have the "Restore Down" button either.
The case for floating palettes and how they work is a different issue.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2012, 03:04:47 PM »
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But if you have unchecked the Full Screen button, then you can do all the standard rescaling, by dragging corners or sides to make the second screen window any size or shape you want. The only thing missing is the Windows "Restore Down" button next to the "Close Window" button.

So yes, it might be nice to add that button and have it do the same as unchecking the "Full Screen" button, but except for the extra step, there doesn't seem to be any functionality lost from the way a standard Windows app works.

And for those of you who think PS is superior in this respect, I just checked my CS6, which has selected panels on the second monitor. The second monitor panels don't have the "Restore Down" button either.



CS6 is something other than LR...but I would have designed a "tray" like window to be able to dock the panels in the orders you want...to size and scroll through them. Make multiple trays if you like. This would help organize things. "Tary1" (or editing tray, would have tools and even other windows you normally have to get at ...like Hue/Sat, or  Curve, or Levels.  These would be in a editing Tray. Then have another tray for History, Layers, and maybe Info. Tray3 would have text, maybe paths or what ever else. Design the tray as you see fit. Drag and drop in the tray.
  Surprised this isn't done yet... in v13!!!!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 05:01:18 PM by Phil Indeblanc » Logged

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egd5
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« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2012, 05:00:01 PM »
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but this is what i do. It seems to me that it would solve(or close to solve) the problems some of you have.
I use two monitors set right beside each other with the OS set so that they are both just the same big desktop. With LR on my main monitor on the left I set it so that the size is draggable to where I want. I fill the screen top to bottom then drag the right side of LR over on to my monitor on the right to a point where only the right panel is on that monitor. Then I have mostly my whole main monitor for the image and still have the panel open.
I then fill up the remainder of the 2nd monitor with the "2nd monitor" of LR by dragging it to fill the space. I set it to grid so I can see thumbnails.
NOW, what would really be nice is if we could have the "2nd monitor" in LR to be on library while the main is in develop so we could assign keywords,etc. without having to toggle between G and D on the main monitor.
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