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Author Topic: Affordable (possibly rental) camera for decent quality landscapes  (Read 2312 times)
Policar
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« on: December 17, 2012, 05:39:55 PM »
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Hi, I'm failed 4x5 shooter who is going back to digital, even though I far prefer the IQ of 4x5 film. I want to take a month-long trip out west and am either planning to bring my 5D III or rent a better camera.

What I like is simple:

135mm/150mm and 300mm focal lengths on 4x5. Not into UWA lenses.

Low contrast scenes. I used to shoot with Velvia and I don't like using grad filters stronger than two stops (I dislike grad filters entirely in theory). I hate tonemapped imagery, but don't mind HDR from zone system shooting/dodging and burning. I like garish colors a bit, though. So the Mark III's "poor" DR is not a big problem for me.

I need tilt/shift/rise/fall, but just to get deep focus and level perspective.

I was going to rent a 45mm TS-E lens and 90mm TS-E and go with my Mark III, but the 45mm TS-E lens is poor and I'd like to print larger. The Hasselblad H system seems too expensive to rent as do most small view and tech cameras (my rental budget for the month is about $1000-$1500, though I can spend more if need be; I am very poor!). I saw the Schneider 50mm Super Angulon and I figured I could rent that instead of the 45mm TS-E (it's $350/month or so). But if that's available for rent for Nikon I could rent it and a D800E. But I'm not sure where I would go to get that.

Any advice? Is the Schneider lens excellent? I would shoot MLU and use ND filters to increase exposure times, but also overexpose a bit to improve tonality since I shoot such low contrast scenes they wouldn't blow out.

Thanks!
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Policar
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 10:15:59 PM »
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It looks like the 50mm and 90mm Schneider lenses are available for Nikon. Are they significantly better than the Nikon T/S lenses, though? If not I'll stick with my 5D III, but I'd love to rent a new toy. But it looks like about a $1500 rental for a month. Could be fun.

Anyone used them?
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stever
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 10:21:09 PM »
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if you want to rent anything, do it at lensrentals.com. they have D800E and Schneider, but the Schneider has not gotten great reviews.

i'd use the 5d3 with 90 TS and 24 TS, stitching as required for larger images - and perhaps adding a Zeiss 50 makro planar
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Policar
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 10:39:53 PM »
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if you want to rent anything, do it at lensrentals.com. they have D800E and Schneider, but the Schneider has not gotten great reviews.

I'm not super surprised... their cinema lenses are not as highly regarded as the competition's.

I guess the current 45mm TS-E and 5D III (which I already own) might be the best thing without stepping up to a MFDB. It's a shame because lenses of that field of view are fantastic on view cameras but it seems they are poor on digital cameras. Oh well; I'll have to focus on technique and composition rather than resolution, I guess. And maybe rent the 24mm TS-E II and 90mm, too, with the money saved over renting another body. Thanks!

As for the Zeiss, I'm sure it's great, but it's not tilt shift!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 12:40:27 AM by Policar » Logged
IWC Doppel
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 12:38:36 AM »
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I would investigate the less well sort after longer Leica R lenses. I have a funncy feeling you will be ahead of the curve. In 6-12m time prices will firm up here and you can sell on with some profit ont he back ont he new M

Some of their Telephoto R lenses have MTF's and build quality to die for
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Policar
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 12:46:46 AM »
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I would investigate the less well sort after longer Leica R lenses. I have a funncy feeling you will be ahead of the curve. In 6-12m time prices will firm up here and you can sell on with some profit ont he back ont he new M

Some of their Telephoto R lenses have MTF's and build quality to die for

Are any of them tilt/shift? I need tilt shift lenses in the 45mm and 90mm focal length range.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2012, 01:04:09 AM »
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Nope!

Hi from Diglloyd's tests I got the impression 90 Schneider is very good 50 mm less so.

You could use Hasselblad or Mamiya MF lenses with a Mirex TS adapter,  http://www.mirex-adapter.de/tilt_shift_adapter.htm .

http://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2012/06/mirex-tilt-shift-adapters/

Elder Hasselblad lenses for V-system can be found cheap, having just bought a Sonnar 15/4 for 350.

Check also: http://www.hartblei.de/en/sr40if.htm

Best regards
Erik

It looks like the 50mm and 90mm Schneider lenses are available for Nikon. Are they significantly better than the Nikon T/S lenses, though? If not I'll stick with my 5D III, but I'd love to rent a new toy. But it looks like about a $1500 rental for a month. Could be fun.

Anyone used them?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 01:14:44 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

Policar
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« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2012, 01:18:33 AM »
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Nope!

Hi from Diglloyd's tests I got the impression 90 Schneider is very good 50 mm less so.

You could use Hasselblad or Mamiya MF lenses with a Mirex TS adapter,  http://www.mirex-adapter.de/tilt_shift_adapter.htm .

http://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2012/06/mirex-tilt-shift-adapters/

Elder Hasselblad lenses for V-system can be found cheap, having just bought a Sonnar 15/4 for 350.

Check also: http://www.hartblei.de/en/sr40if.htm

Best regards
Erik


Those look very interesting, but maybe too esoteric for my needs. I think I'll just rent for now and maybe purchase a 45mm TS-E II if one is released later this year as planned.

It seems as though all the 90mm range tilt shift lenses are reasonably good, but few of the 45mm range ones are. The 40mm Hartblei looks fantastic (and I prefer that slightly wider focal length), but for $3500 I'd only consider renting. If I were wealthier and owned a D800E and it was truly great, then sure.
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MrSmith
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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2012, 04:20:04 AM »
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i'd use the 5d3 with 90 TS and 24 TS, stitching as required for larger images - and perhaps adding a Zeiss 50 makro planar

I would do exactly this and maybe add an arca type plate or L bracket so you can do parallax free stitching if you work close-up. The 45 isn't brilliant adding a 1.4 converter to the 24 gives you 33mm and is better image quality if used in the f5.6-11 sweet spot.
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MarkL
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2012, 10:48:02 AM »
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I'd look at stitching with a dslr and use helicon focus if you need more depth of field (assuming you are not looking at TS lenses for any other reason) before expensive medium format systems. I ditched MF and LF film when I bought my D700 because despite its low resolution stitching easily made up for it.
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IWC Doppel
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2012, 10:49:07 AM »
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Are any of them tilt/shift? I need tilt shift lenses in the 45mm and 90mm focal length range.

As an M shooter I knopw very little about the R lenses, I'll have a dig in my compendium tonight
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2012, 01:30:50 PM »
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Hi,

Using a Mirex adapter with a Hasselblad V lens may be a interesting alternative, as Hasselblad V lenses can be had dirt cheap.

Samyang has 24/3.5 TS coming in a few months. Samyang lenses used to be very good and come with very low price.

Check tis article about the Samyang 14/3.5: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/blog/2012/11/the-samyang-14mm-f2-8-ed-if-umc

I have just acquired the Samyang 14/3.5 and it is excellent at f/8, in absolute terms, without regard to the price. I'm going to publish some pictures next week.

Best regards
Erik


Those look very interesting, but maybe too esoteric for my needs. I think I'll just rent for now and maybe purchase a 45mm TS-E II if one is released later this year as planned.

It seems as though all the 90mm range tilt shift lenses are reasonably good, but few of the 45mm range ones are. The 40mm Hartblei looks fantastic (and I prefer that slightly wider focal length), but for $3500 I'd only consider renting. If I were wealthier and owned a D800E and it was truly great, then sure.
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Policar
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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2012, 11:18:39 PM »
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I'll look into the Hasselblad lenses, but I might just rent and be done with it. As for stitching, it's just not my style. I like to compose at a specific focal length with perspective correction and final composition all accounted for, and I like long exposures, which present problems with stitching. I don't know... it's more fun this way.

I'm certainly I'll eat my words and stitch some panoramas.

The Samyang could be interesting. I think the rumored 45mm TS-E II will be my preference, though.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2012, 11:48:15 PM »
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Hi,

I read the Samyang 24/3.5TS will be delayed. I have one on preorder without price or delivery date.

Best regards
Erik



I'll look into the Hasselblad lenses, but I might just rent and be done with it. As for stitching, it's just not my style. I like to compose at a specific focal length with perspective correction and final composition all accounted for, and I like long exposures, which present problems with stitching. I don't know... it's more fun this way.

I'm certainly I'll eat my words and stitch some panoramas.

The Samyang could be interesting. I think the rumored 45mm TS-E II will be my preference, though.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 12:20:28 AM »
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For landscape you should consider stitching and using something like a gigapan.

I have a friend that shoots with a Canon 60D and a gigapan. His landscapes are brilliant.

His results are so good that he chose to get a 44 inch wide printer rather than go to a medium format digital.

Turn your Canon 5D mark III into a 400MP camera.

Google has an incredible fine art project of digitizing at massive resolution the most significant painting in the world.
Even with their massive resources that chose stitching with 35mm cameras over large format film or medium format digital

http://www.googleartproject.com
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NancyP
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2012, 06:56:22 PM »
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bummer re: Samyang 24mm TS delay. I keep checking for info on B and H, and on the UK Samyang site, not a word. I am a beginning photographer who has been itching to try TS on close-up and macro as well as architecture, and I gather that you don't get the hang of shooting TS in a day or a short rental period.
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bill t.
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« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2012, 06:45:18 PM »
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I am a focus-stacking booster and a T/S skeptic.  Would recommend some experiments with Helicon Focus while waiting for that Samyang lens to be available.  It's usually pitched for closeups, but 4 or 5 focus brackets on a landscape will give a stunningly crisp image from here to there, even when there are nearby objects on all sides of the frame.  I particularly like it because there is no setup or uncertainty in the field, even at night.  You just hit the focus marks, that's all you need and it works every time.

Lots of threads on these subjects on this forum.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2012, 09:45:32 PM »
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I am a focus-stacking booster and a T/S skeptic.  Would recommend some experiments with Helicon Focus while waiting for that Samyang lens to be available.  It's usually pitched for closeups, but 4 or 5 focus brackets on a landscape will give a stunningly crisp image from here to there, even when there are nearby objects on all sides of the frame.  I particularly like it because there is no setup or uncertainty in the field, even at night.  You just hit the focus marks, that's all you need and it works every time.

Lots of threads on these subjects on this forum.

Tilt / shift and focus stacking are two different things for different purposes.

Tilt changes the angle of the focusing plane while shift corrects for distortion.

Tilt in moving the focusing plane does not really increase depth of field. It changes the angle of the plane of focus.

If you have foreground and background objects evenly spread out in the frame tilt will not help.

Focus stacking is a very handy tool however it is limited by focus pump and scaling required to compensate for the focus pump.

Personally I find tilt and shift to be very useful tools. I use them in portraits, fashion and landscape..... actually probably less in landscape.

IF you do focus stacking and use a Nikon  Control My Nikon software does a nice job on automating focus stacking.
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markd61
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« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2012, 10:53:53 PM »
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Hi,

I read the Samyang 24/3.5TS will be delayed. I have one on preorder without price or delivery date.


I am very interested in the Samyang TS. I have the Canon 17 TS-E and love it. I use it occasionally with a 1.4 TC and the quality is superb but it is tedious.
I would also be interested in a 90TS from a good manufacturer though the Canon is not too pricey at this juncture compared to the inevitable new version.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2012, 12:53:12 PM »
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Hi,

I bought a Samyang 14/2.8 and I am quite impressed by that lens. Samples coming in a few days...

Best regards
Erik


I am very interested in the Samyang TS. I have the Canon 17 TS-E and love it. I use it occasionally with a 1.4 TC and the quality is superb but it is tedious.
I would also be interested in a 90TS from a good manufacturer though the Canon is not too pricey at this juncture compared to the inevitable new version.
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