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Author Topic: Part III - The current state of medium format  (Read 5467 times)
Paul Ozzello
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« on: December 20, 2012, 02:24:33 PM »
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As we all know medium format is dead and the only 2 cameras worth buying are the Nikon D800 and Fuji GX680. I would like to start a discussion on the merits of these two cameras and why nothing else on the market compares.

Best regards,

Paul
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2012, 03:37:22 PM »
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Obviously you don't believe in good will , love and peace during the holidays. ROTFLMAO

Film is dead. D800 wait for Canon. MF only cool people care. Everything else is just cameras.

What answer did you expect. Lol

Have a nice Holiday


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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2012, 03:45:31 PM »
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Hi Paul,


The simple answer is that for film you would use the GX680 and for digital the D800.

Best regards
Erik

As we all know medium format is dead and the only 2 cameras worth buying are the Nikon D800 and Fuji GX680. I would like to start a discussion on the merits of these two cameras and why nothing else on the market compares.

Best regards,

Paul
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Paul Ozzello
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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 03:52:39 PM »
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Obviously you don't believe in good will , love and peace during the holidays. ROTFLMAO

Film is dead. D800 wait for Canon. MF only cool people care. Everything else is just cameras.

What answer did you expect. Lol

Have a nice Holiday




Bah humbug!
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2012, 03:58:57 PM »
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Hi Guy,

Canon is lagging heavily in the low dark noise at low iso department. It is not just so simple they can pop out a 50 MP camera at will. It takes several years to develop a new sensor and the camera around it.

Canon sensors seem to be built in a 0.5 micron process, which probably set limitations. Canon is said to build a new fab for 0.18 micron process, but it may still take some time for them to catch up. Such a fab is a billion dollar investment, AFAIK.

It is quite possible that Canon pulls a 50 MPixel rabbit of their hat. But it takes a lot of research to do that.

In general I guess that we are in a phase where only stepwise improvements are possible.

Best regards
Erik



Obviously you don't believe in good will , love and peace during the holidays. ROTFLMAO

Film is dead. D800 wait for Canon. MF only cool people care. Everything else is just cameras.

What answer did you expect. Lol

Have a nice Holiday



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Rob C
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2012, 04:02:10 PM »
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I guess that MF just became 135.

These headings are so confusing.

Rob C
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LKaven
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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2012, 05:51:43 PM »
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I guess that MF just became 135.

These headings are so confusing.

I seem to recall the Leaf Valeo 6 was a 135 "medium format" back.  :-)
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FredBGG
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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2012, 08:13:55 PM »
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As we all know medium format is dead and the only 2 cameras worth buying are the Nikon D800 and Fuji GX680. I would like to start a discussion on the merits of these two cameras and why nothing else on the market compares.

Best regards,

Paul

Don't worry.... The D800 and the Fuji GX680 are dating already. They should be breeding soon.

Their babies will be cute little 6x7 cameras, the girls will be smaller and cuter, the boys will have tilt shift, CMOS with live view, face and eyelash recognition auto focus Wink
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Gigi
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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2012, 09:20:41 PM »
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Don't worry.... The D800 and the Fuji GX680 are dating already. They should be breeding soon.

Their babies will be cute little 6x7 cameras, the girls will be smaller and cuter, the boys will have tilt shift, CMOS with live view, face and eyelash recognition auto focus Wink

now you're talkin....  Smiley
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Geoff
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« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 11:25:50 PM »
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I'll let you know when they are pregnant Grin
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Gel
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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2012, 03:30:04 AM »
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Kodak Disc film, it's the future.
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Chris Giles Photography
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 03:48:15 AM »
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I'm still waiting for Bill Gates to put his money where its needed. Building a 6x9 CMOS sensor in a camera not much bigger then the df+... and then go out to war with the D800 and sell it for $5000. Schneider LS lenses included in that price... anyone?
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 05:34:23 AM »
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I'm still waiting for Bill Gates to put his money where its needed. Building a 6x9 CMOS sensor in a camera not much bigger then the df+... and then go out to war with the D800 and sell it for $5000. Schneider LS lenses included in that price... anyone?

Given that our Aptus II-8 and/or the DF crashes significantly more than my windows does perhaps Bill might be a good choice.
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MrSmith
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 11:34:36 AM »
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Canon sensors seem to be built in a 0.5 micron process, which probably set limitations. Canon is said to build a new fab for 0.18 micron process, but it may still take some time for them to catch up. Such a fab is a billion dollar investment, AFAIK.

It is quite possible that Canon pulls a 50 MPixel rabbit of their hat. But it takes a lot of research to do that.


I can see that being far more a viable investment-development-bring to market scenario than any medium format manufacturer bringing out a quality usable high iso back with proper live view
A company like canon has the resources to drive that investment and see a return on that quite quickly if the product delivers.

Where does the future lie in MFD development? More Megapixels? If they are selling as well as we are led to believe there must be some development going on?
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BJL
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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 04:48:03 PM »
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Canon sensors seem to be built in a 0.5 micron process, which probably set limitations. Canon is said to build a new fab for 0.18 micron process, but it may still take some time for them to catch up. Such a fab is a billion dollar investment, AFAIK.
Canon's CMOS sensors for compact cameras are surely made on a design rule smaller than 0.5 micron, so would think that Canon can get access to a suitable fab. for future DSLR sensors if and when it has a need.

But we have wandered of topic! So ...

The future of MF clearly belongs to Pentax, the only MF player with more than one AF point, stabilized lenses, and vaguely accessible pricing.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2012, 05:53:04 PM »
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Hi,

Yes, of course, but according to some sources they are made at Sony. The information I referred to is mostly coming to chipworks, who published articles analyzing APS and full size sensors from Canon, Nikon and Sony.

Canon is said to build a fab for 0.18 microns.

On the other hand, I was thinking about the characteristics of the Canon sensors and stated thinking about the read noise being more a problem of the ADC than of sensor and readout preamps. What is your take on this, could it be that the ADCs used are noisy in the low bits? The high ISO performance of Canons is very good, that really indicates that readout noise is good at some stage. According to "sensorgen" site readout noise decreases on Canons at high ISO.

Best regards
Erik

Canon's CMOS sensors for compact cameras are surely made on a design rule smaller than 0.5 micron, so would think that Canon can get access to a suitable fab. for future DSLR sensors if and when it has a need.

But we have wandered of topic! So ...

The future of MF clearly belongs to Pentax, the only MF player with more than one AF point, stabilized lenses, and vaguely accessible pricing.
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paul_jones
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2012, 06:50:20 PM »
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Canon's CMOS sensors for compact cameras are surely made on a design rule smaller than 0.5 micron, so would think that Canon can get access to a suitable fab. for future DSLR sensors if and when it has a need.

But we have wandered of topic! So ...

The future of MF clearly belongs to Pentax, the only MF player with more than one AF point, stabilized lenses, and vaguely accessible pricing.


i didn't think pentax MF actually tether? i guess that puts in out of contention with 90% of commercial photographers.
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check my new website
http://www.paulrossjones.com
FredBGG
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2012, 07:06:39 PM »
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i didn't think pentax MF actually tether? i guess that puts in out of contention with 90% of commercial photographers.


Can be tethered both Wirelessly and USB.

It can be tethered but is rather basic.

However you can wirelessly tether with the Eye-Fi card.

Fast enough for jpeg preview to the computer while keeping the raw files on the camera.


http://youtu.be/wY6GdxDyP1w Japanese

Client previews on computer screen and tablets with no wires and even without a WiFi router.... Rocket science by MF standards Wink
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 08:23:32 PM by FredBGG » Logged
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2012, 03:42:58 AM »
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As we all know medium format is dead and the only 2 cameras worth buying are the Nikon D800 and Fuji GX680. I would like to start a discussion on the merits of these two cameras and why nothing else on the market compares.

Probably because it is raining in Belgium today.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
MrSmith
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« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2012, 04:20:36 AM »
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Pentax will not crack the pro market without the rental back-up and proper raw tethering software. Maybe they are only worried about the domestic market and amateur/landscape photographers as there's more sales there anyway?
I wonder about Sinar too, here in the uk their presence is minimal, you never see an advert for them and nobody seems to use them. The importer is a print supplies company with little info and no prices, maybe they are a bigger player in mainland Europe?
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