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Author Topic: What are you wishing for in LR5 ?  (Read 72121 times)
dreed
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« Reply #140 on: January 08, 2013, 07:51:29 AM »
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@dreed - You know that you can crop and hold down CtrlR / CmdR ?

That's just a short cut for clicking on the ruler, yes?

And it doesn't work when zoomed in (crop forces you back to 100% view).

Because LR or your computer can't read your mind or know your intentions. If both could think then they might surmise you want the imperfections? It is your image and you are in charge and you should be using the tools - assuming they are adequate - to instruct the program to carry out your wishes? Smiley

If LR can do "Auto Tone", why can't it do "Auto Straighten"?
And if it can do "Auto Straighten", why can't it do "Auto Keystone Correction"?

The instructions I want to give to LR are:
- rotate the image and apply whatever distortion correction is necessary to present a straight and horizontal horizon (that might also lead to instructions such as "apply rotation and distortion correction to have as many trees as possible being straight up and down.")
- determine and apply the required correction to make this building look like a rectangle rather than a trapezoid

Now I would be happy to tell LR which edge it is that needs to be horizontal/vertical and/or draw a circle/box around the squished looking building that needs to be made whole again if that will help but that is the limit of what I want to have to do.

Or to pick a Jeff Schewe favourite topic:
- an "Auto Moire Correction" tool that examines the image, detects what regions are impacted by moire and applies a suitable correction even if there are multiple regions in the image that require different levels of moire correction (not likely but a lens can do funny things to a scene)
After all, moire is easily seen with the eye and if it can be easily seen with the eye then it should be possible to detect it using an algorithm and determine what correction is needed to remove the moire without requiring the use of a brush. Or why not even add an "Eliminate moire" checkbox along with those for removing chromatic aberration, etc?

Quote
BTW why don't you ask your camera manufacturer to implement ways to prevent it in the first place. Wink

A lot of the more recent DSLRs and MFDBs do actually include a digital leveling feature. So yes, some camera manufacturers are aware of this issue and are doing what they can to inform the photographer about whether the camera is level or not.
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #141 on: January 08, 2013, 08:19:52 AM »
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After all, moire is easily seen with the eye and if it can be easily seen with the eye then it should be possible to detect it using an algorithm
Not everything that is easy for humans is easy for computers and vice versa.

Stuff like speech recognition, navigation in a room full of obstacles, distinguishing an image of a 'tree' from that of a 'car', stuff that average 2 year old humans do easily, are notoriously hard for computers, even when we throw decades of PhD research and eager entrepenours at the problem.

The basic problem with aliasing is that you get one unique set of data ("pixels" or "raw file") that relate to several possible scenes. I dont think that it is possible to robustly (i.e. 100 out of 100 times) guess wich scene is most likely without simulatenously doing a high-level analysis of the image motif, the photographer intent etc. Of course, us humans do this subconsciously without a sweat, but good luck formalizing that process as an algorithm.

Imagine a photographer shooting a LEGO(tm) set. Brightly colored bricks in a higly "aliased" pattern. A sane moire-reduction might assume that those jagged edges are caused by poor aa-filtering, and try to smooth them out. A 4-year-old would recognize the (unprocessed) image as that of a Lego castle.

-h
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 08:26:12 AM by hjulenissen » Logged
Stephane Desnault
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« Reply #142 on: January 08, 2013, 08:28:19 AM »
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Fascinating insights into artificial intelligence and several discussions of the relative capabilities of the human mind and computers can be found at:

http://www.amazon.com/How-Create-Mind-Thought-Revealed/dp/0670025291/

I know I enjoyed the read Cheesy .
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Glenn NK
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« Reply #143 on: January 08, 2013, 11:34:25 AM »
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If LR can do "Auto Tone", why can't it do "Auto Straighten"?
And if it can do "Auto Straighten", why can't it do "Auto Keystone Correction"?

I have a few hundred images shot over water (across Juan da Fuca Strait, and on the Oregon coast) in which I've had a very difficult time determining exactly where the horizon is because of large waves, mist, fog, distant cloud, etc., but these are easy compared to a scene shot across a lake.  (I've adjusted some of them several times).

In the case of an image shot over a lake where the far shore is not perpendicular to the line of sight and the camera is not at water level, it is impossible to visually determine a horizontal line on the image because there is none.  If one knew the angle between the far shoreline and the line of sight, and also know the angle between the lake surface and the line of sight, it is mathematically possible (with three dimensional geometry) to calculate a horizontal.  There is still the problem of determining the first angle (angle of shoreline to line of sight) - I have not found an easy method of doing this.  Wink

Glenn
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #144 on: January 08, 2013, 01:02:19 PM »
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I have a few hundred images shot over water (across Juan da Fuca Strait, and on the Oregon coast) in which I've had a very difficult time determining exactly where the horizon is because of large waves, mist, fog, distant cloud, etc., but these are easy compared to a scene shot across a lake.  (I've adjusted some of them several times).

In the case of an image shot over a lake where the far shore is not perpendicular to the line of sight and the camera is not at water level, it is impossible to visually determine a horizontal line on the image because there is none.  If one knew the angle between the far shoreline and the line of sight, and also know the angle between the lake surface and the line of sight, it is mathematically possible (with three dimensional geometry) to calculate a horizontal.  There is still the problem of determining the first angle (angle of shoreline to line of sight) - I have not found an easy method of doing this.  Wink

Glenn
But then, is it the "true" horizon that one generally wants, or is it the most visually pleasing alternative? If there are no tell-tale buildings, power-line poles etc that the true horizon can be inferred from, it seems to me that one may just as well be creative until a believable and pleasing result appears.

-h
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Glenn NK
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« Reply #145 on: January 08, 2013, 02:21:49 PM »
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But then, is it the "true" horizon that one generally wants, or is it the most visually pleasing alternative? If there are no tell-tale buildings, power-line poles etc that the true horizon can be inferred from, it seems to me that one may just as well be creative until a believable and pleasing result appears.

-h

And precisely why the software can't solve the problem.

It happens quite frequently with landscapes on forums - someone thinks the image needs a little CW or CCW rotation - someone else thinks it's OK.  Try and develop an algorithm based on feelings or opinion.

Previous posters have said as much in different words.  I think it's a dead issue.

Glenn
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John Caldwell
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« Reply #146 on: January 08, 2013, 02:41:11 PM »
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What's the latest talk visa vi relative adjustments and presets for relative adjustments? I had the impression that there might be a critical mass of folks wanting this, and that it was not too burdensome from a programming perspective. True?

John Caldwell
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David Sutton
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« Reply #147 on: January 09, 2013, 01:40:52 AM »
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Late to this thread and haven't read it all. Apologies.
I wish dual monitor support would get sorted. I have the thumbnails on one screen and the image and panels on another. “Save metadata to file” doesn't work unless I move the thumbnails onto the work screen.
Everytime I hit “synchronise”, the thumbnails swap screens and my place in the folders panel gets lost.
I could go on...
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kikashi
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« Reply #148 on: January 09, 2013, 02:30:58 AM »
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Actually you can!

Find the presets folder and go into subfolders and files.
You can open individual presets in Notepad so you can see exactly what the settings are.
As long as you know what changes you want you can edit the settings and resave.

Tony Jay

Tony, that's new to me and interesting. It's hardly a GUI, though! William's suggestion is one I've often wanted as well.

Jeremy
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hjulenissen
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« Reply #149 on: January 09, 2013, 04:12:04 AM »
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And precisely why the software can't solve the problem.

It happens quite frequently with landscapes on forums - someone thinks the image needs a little CW or CCW rotation - someone else thinks it's OK.  Try and develop an algorithm based on feelings or opinion.

Previous posters have said as much in different words.  I think it's a dead issue.

Glenn
I'd offer an alternate view.

If one wanted to find the "true" horizon from an image that does not offer enough information to find the true horizon, then it is obviously impossible to correct the horizon for either a computer program or a person. It is an unsolvable problem.

If one want to find a "pleasing" horizon from an image, then it is only a matter of figuring out what is pleasing for that particular image. I can do it manually for my taste, you can do it manually for your taste, and it is concieable (although very hard/unlikely) that some future computer program could suggest the setting that "65 out of 100 photographers would prefer", or suggest a list of alternatives that would satisfy most photographers. Of course, this is unlikely to ever happen, but the fact that the choice is based only on the image itself (and not on physical parameters outside of the image) means that the needed information is there.

-h
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Tony Jay
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« Reply #150 on: January 09, 2013, 04:38:59 AM »
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Tony, that's new to me and interesting. It's hardly a GUI, though! William's suggestion is one I've often wanted as well.

Jeremy

Yes, it does show one how complex and interesting Lightroom is.
I certainly cannot claim to know everything there is to know about Lightroom but I am investing a fair bit of time digging into its innards to find out how it ticks.
The way I do this is by investigating issues that come up on this forum and others and seeing if I can solve them.
I have learnt all sorts of interesting things in the process that I would never encounter in my usual workflow.

As for an integrated solution to editing presets - we shall see.

Tony Jay
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dreed
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« Reply #151 on: January 09, 2013, 12:35:37 PM »
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And precisely why the software can't solve the problem.

It happens quite frequently with landscapes on forums - someone thinks the image needs a little CW or CCW rotation - someone else thinks it's OK.  Try and develop an algorithm based on feelings or opinion.

Previous posters have said as much in different words.  I think it's a dead issue.

I've never come across an image that one person thought was straight and another thought wasn't.

But regardless of that, if "Auto Level" is out of the question then give me the option of selecting a boundary between two colours in an image as the horizontal or vertical line rather than requiring me to draw one. Sometimes there is no boundary for me to try and draw over but when I do want to make such a correction then most of the time, there is.
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Fips
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« Reply #152 on: January 10, 2013, 05:18:07 AM »
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I apologize if should have been said already and I also know that this probably isn't something Eric is working on but:
LR5 definitely needs more organizational features in the book module. Folders within a book project would already be of great help!
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Glenn NK
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« Reply #153 on: January 10, 2013, 10:37:22 PM »
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I've never come across an image that one person thought was straight and another thought wasn't.


Try Naturescapes.net

It's happened a number of times in the landscape gallery.
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Pete_G
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« Reply #154 on: January 12, 2013, 07:02:28 AM »
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I'm wondering if there could be an Anti Banding Module. Yes, I know there are techniques in PS, but something like Eric's brilliant CA tool would be very useful. I don't even know if it's possible.
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Adam L
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« Reply #155 on: January 12, 2013, 07:23:32 AM »
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I would like more cloud features added.  The web module is ripe for a cloud makeover and the slideshow feature is just not that useful in its current form.   Store 1:1 renders in the cloud and move these output features there.  Make it easy to get images to iPhones and iPads.  I see revenue streams everywhere.
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stamper
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« Reply #156 on: January 12, 2013, 07:41:42 AM »
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I'm wondering if there could be an Anti Banding Module. Yes, I know there are techniques in PS, but something like Eric's brilliant CA tool would be very useful. I don't even know if it's possible.

The banding is possibly caused by over processing so I don't think that is possible?
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Wills
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« Reply #157 on: January 12, 2013, 08:17:08 AM »
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A proper implementation of layers with masks would be a good progression, saving a round trip to Photoshop.
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Anthony.Ralph
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« Reply #158 on: January 12, 2013, 10:25:36 AM »
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Adobe has a 'JDI' (just do it) programme for Photoshop where small adjustments/improvements/tidy-ups are implemented. It would be good to have that for Lightroom. I nominate that pesky double-headed arrow bug in the keyword list as something to be sorted.

Anthony.
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GeraldB
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« Reply #159 on: January 12, 2013, 02:45:10 PM »
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The best way to get the horizon straight automatically is for Lightroom to read the accelerometer data and get the yaw, pitch, roll of the camera when the shot was taken. What! your camera doesn't have accellerometers? How 20th Century!
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