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Author Topic: New Build Won't Boot With DVI Monitor - only VGA  (Read 3648 times)
Alistair
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« on: December 21, 2012, 08:48:27 AM »
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Am in the process of building a LR/PS machine and have come across a very strange problem and in desperation am seeing if any photographers have come across anything similar.

If I plug my 23inch Mac Cinema Display with DVI plug into the Graphics Card, the computer will not boot. Does not even get to the point where I can enter BIOS.
However when I plug in a VGA monitor it boots without problem. Once booted and up and running, I can unplug the VGA monitor and plug in the DVI monitor and it runs fine. However if I then restart the computer it will only reboot if I pull out the DVI and revert to the VGA monitor. And the machine will awake from hibernation and run the screen fine. It is only a boot issue. Any suggestions?

The current configuration is as follows:

Intel i7 3820 s2011 CPU

 MSI X79A GD65 8D MOBO

4 X 8GB CORSAIR VENGEANCE CMZ32GX3M4A1600C9

NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS (Latest Driver)  (I know this is old but there is no reason for it not to work)

BIOS V1.4

1TB SATA 2 DRIVES

CORSAIR GS600 PSU (600 watt)

Win 7 64bit OS
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kaelaria
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 01:23:39 PM »
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If you are SURE it's not actually booting and just not showing the screen (some cinema displays will not recognize the POST screens at all) you might have built it incorrectly with the video card in the wrong slot.
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Alistair
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 01:36:23 PM »
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I am sure it is not booting with the DVI - I can see it on the debug LED on the board. I do not recognise all the codes but am pretty sure it is getting past all the North/South bridge initialisations and the CPU initialisation but is stopping at the PCI Bus or possibly the Console initialisation.

It is possible the card is in the wrong slot -  that is a good thought. Once I have finished some client work I am doing right now I will shut it down and give it a try.

Thanks for your response.
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Alistair
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2012, 02:17:09 PM »
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I am sure it is not booting with the DVI - I can see it on the debug LED on the board. I do not recognise all the codes but am pretty sure it is getting past all the North/South bridge initialisations and the CPU initialisation but is stopping at the PCI Bus or possibly the Console initialisation.

It is possible the card is in the wrong slot -  that is a good thought. Once I have finished some client work I am doing right now I will shut it down and give it a try.

Thanks for your response.

Darn, tried PCI-E 1 but no luck.

Since the card is working fine if it is plugged in after the machine has booted, the card itself is likely to be OK. The issue surely points to a pre-boot handshake between BIOS and the card. I think I will have to try another card and see if that solves it.
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John.Murray
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2012, 04:56:47 PM »
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I've run into issues with uefi bios running into a DVI or HDMI display on an early revision of an Asus MB.   Check your display cards firmware; does it support 64bit uefi bios?  I suspect it may not. 
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Alistair
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« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2012, 02:21:26 AM »
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Hi, thanks for the reply. I have narrowed down the problem to the display itself - Apple Cinema 23 inch. It is stopping this new PC from booting. If I boot it up with a VGA display and then pull out the VGA and plug in the Apple it works fine. The display works fine with other PC's I have as does the video card. I will start a new thread about this as the subject has changed somewhat.
Best Regards
Alistair
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2012, 01:39:33 PM »
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I've run into issues with uefi bios running into a DVI or HDMI display on an early revision of an Asus MB.   Check your display cards firmware; does it support 64bit uefi bios?  I suspect it may not. 
I ran across this exact same problem last week and narrowed it down to the GPU card BIOS just as John described.  A call to HIS and I had the new BIOS.. updated and all was fine.
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Alistair
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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2012, 03:01:47 PM »
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I ran across this exact same problem last week and narrowed it down to the GPU card BIOS just as John described.  A call to HIS and I had the new BIOS.. updated and all was fine.

OK, I will look into that. It is just that I borrowed another DVI monitor and the machine boots up fine with that. And I have tried three different graphics cards in this machine now, all with the same result. The common factors are the motherboard and the display. But this thing is driving me mad now and I am game to try anything!
Appreciate the responses.
Alistair
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Alistair
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« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 02:01:21 PM »
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I ran across this exact same problem last week and narrowed it down to the GPU card BIOS just as John described.  A call to HIS and I had the new BIOS.. updated and all was fine.

Hi Steve, just to clarify this - are you talking about the GPU bios or the Mobo bios. I am already on the latest Mobo version but if it is GPU bios I am not sure I can update that.
Regards
Alistair
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John.Murray
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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 02:36:45 PM »
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Alistair:  Steve and I are referring to the GPU firmware.

A quick case in point; I have resurrected a failing Mac Pro 2006 Tower with a new Mainboard and CPU's.  The original Display adapter (NVidia 7300GT) only supported 32-bit uefi bios - Mountain Lion requires display devices with 64bit uefi support, consequently this card is unusable with the O/S.  In addition to this is HDCP support which *might* explain the fact you can boot using a VGA adpapter, only your card vendor would know for sure.....
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Alistair
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« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2012, 03:40:42 PM »
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Alistair:  Steve and I are referring to the GPU firmware.

A quick case in point; I have resurrected a failing Mac Pro 2006 Tower with a new Mainboard and CPU's.  The original Display adapter (NVidia 7300GT) only supported 32-bit uefi bios - Mountain Lion requires display devices with 64bit uefi support, consequently this card is unusable with the O/S.  In addition to this is HDCP support which *might* explain the fact you can boot using a VGA adpapter, only your card vendor would know for sure.....

Thanks John, I could not find a way to update the BIOS of my old card so today in desperation purchased an up to date model which presumably has a reasonably recent BIOS. Alas, it behaves exactly the same as the old one.

I have wasted so much time on this display now I am getting frustrated in the extreme.
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Rhossydd
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2012, 05:14:12 AM »
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I have wasted so much time on this display now I am getting frustrated in the extreme.
eBay it and buy a NEC Spectraview.
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2012, 08:10:35 AM »
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Thanks John, I could not find a way to update the BIOS of my old card so today in desperation purchased an up to date model which presumably has a reasonably recent BIOS. Alas, it behaves exactly the same as the old one.

I have wasted so much time on this display now I am getting frustrated in the extreme.
Alistair -

After decades of trouble shooting electronic gear I've grown highly suspicious of any components I cannot verify as compatible.  And I've always learned to always put a meter across visible fuses.  My last sentence is more of an inside joke but it says it all.  You probably remember glass automotive fuses of the past, with the filaments we could look through and visually see?  We presumed that if we could visually see an intact element then the fuse was good.  But a new technician (at least the ones who went on to become good technicians) quickly learned to put a multi-meter across the fuse to check for continuity DESPITE our presumption.  We'd quickly learned, sometimes after spending unnecessary hours, days or even weeks on a problem not to mention untold expenses from ordering other stuff in our quest fro a repair..that the only SURE way to check a fuse, is to put a meter across it.   This mindset taught us that we'd ALWAYS spend less time trouble shooting overall, and that just like Mr. Murphy lurking in the background waiting to make his presence known, that the first time, even in years, that we failed our due diligence with the meter.. it would bite us in the ass.. Usually to the amusement of our co-workers or the ire of our supervisors.

So, while I agree what I'm going to say on the surface seems unlikely at best.. it's the way I've learned to trouble-shoot after decades of experience, and because I do I'll never spend an unnecessary hour OR dollar chasing a bad fuse.

Based on everything you've said in this thread so far  I would:

1.  Have you physically changed out the DVI cable? 

2.  Power:  You've inspected or verified your power cable and you're NOT using an extension?

3.  Your power supply in the computer itself at 600 watts is light for your build.  Have you at least checked it for proper voltages under load and ripple?  Ideally you should be 80% of your load at 50% of your rated power assuming average usage patterns.  More and you generate excess heat, excess fan noise, and stressing the supply more less than ideal outputs. I do this a lot so I keep a few known good reference supplies so if I'm in doubt I can easily substitute, if you don't do this a lot a decent meter isn't terribly expensive and can be used for many things. 

4.  CALL your video card manufacturer and ensure you're working with a compatible firmware.  UEFI BIOS sets are still new enough where a newly purchased video card might not be compatible, especially if you shopped by price.


Or as a poster suggested, just replace it.  I try to discourage this, even if it's what I'd do myself, because it's more economically and environmentally responsible to replace LESS gear resulting in LESS full landfills.   

Plus, sometimes the thrill of the hunt can be well worth the extra efforts.. Smiley  I understand your frustration and would support you if you wanted to use your discarded Apple product for target practice.   Grin   Good luck.
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Alistair
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2012, 01:47:36 PM »
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Thanks Steve, have tried most of your suggestions but maybe should confirm the compatibility of the card. But surely GPU's have been shipped UEFI 64 bit for years? I actually quite like the display so will calm down and persevere a bit longer!
I am rather intrigued by John's mention of HDCP. My Apple display is a 2006 model and I suspect it does not support HDCP. If HDCP is enforced in the BIOS, the GPU or somewhere else pre-OS, that may offer an explanation as to why it wont boot with this screen. Does anyone know where HDCP is enforced?
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Steve Weldon
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« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2012, 03:42:59 PM »
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Thanks Steve, have tried most of your suggestions but maybe should confirm the compatibility of the card. But surely GPU's have been shipped UEFI 64 bit for years? I actually quite like the display so will calm down and persevere a bit longer!
I am rather intrigued by John's mention of HDCP. My Apple display is a 2006 model and I suspect it does not support HDCP. If HDCP is enforced in the BIOS, the GPU or somewhere else pre-OS, that may offer an explanation as to why it wont boot with this screen. Does anyone know where HDCP is enforced?

1.  Shipped yes.. actually in 2008.  But when did the spec actually start appearing on products.. I'm thinking less than two years ago but not sure.  And they change the spec, the most recent change was shipped in Apill 2011 and who knows if its yet started to appear in products today much less reliably through an entire line.

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Alistair
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« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2012, 08:07:33 AM »
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Thanks to everyone who pitched in on this. I have spent so much time on this that I have to call it a day. I ended up with a cludge. Used a few resistors to fool the PC into thinking it has VGA load. It will boot with this. Once booted then plug in the DVI and it is fine. Thanks to an earlier post on this thread, I am thinking that the issue has something to do with the non-HDCP compliance of the Apple Cinema Display but I do not know where the protocol is being enforced and therefore cannot dig further (even if I had the time to do so). THanks again to everyone who contributed and I am almost embarrassed to show the "fix". All the best.
Alistair
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