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Author Topic: Hassy vs. Mamiya  (Read 13145 times)
FredBGG
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« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2012, 01:07:45 PM »
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To be honest, I really could care less and will rarely ever shoot with a DSLR when going MF (tech camera is where I want to be).  However, my girlfriend is a food and "restaurant lifestyle" photographer.  We presently share (and share in the cost) a good deal of equipment.  Although we plan on both getting a MF system, I would be the first (been in business about 3 years longer) and just wonder if Hassy is actually worth it for her type of work.  If so, I feel that it would not make sense to get a Mamiya system if she is just eventually going to get a Hassy.  She is fixated on the Hassy camera but would rather have a Phase or Leaf back. 

You definitely want to both get the same compatible gear. MFD is as reliable as high end 35MM DSLRs and being able to fall back on each others equipment
is going to be a big benefit.

Also the new Hasselblad backs have a battery attachement and makes them suitable for you tech camera use.
Also the Hasselblad Tilt shift adapter may be useful to you as an architecture photographer.

You should also consider service. Hasselblad has stellar service with fast turn arounds and you can deal directly with them.
There are many postings of Phase/Leaf repairs being problematic, long turn arounds and incomplete repairs.

If you do go with a mixed system.. Hasselblad with IQ or Credo back go through a dealer and make sure they give you a rock solid additional warranty
for the combined camera.
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sgilbert
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« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2012, 07:56:47 PM »
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"There are many postings of Phase/Leaf repairs being problematic, long turn arounds and incomplete repairs."

Are there any satisfied Phase owners, do you think?  Or Hassy owners who've had problems?  Nah;  if there were, Fred would've mentioned them.
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geesbert
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« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2012, 03:00:53 AM »
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My dreadful experience with my leaf AFI taught me not to avoid a camera system that is cobbled together by different manufacturers, who seem not to talk to each other. When something goes wrong, they blame each other rather than trying to work things out.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2012, 03:28:31 AM »
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My dreadful experience with my leaf AFI taught me not to avoid a camera system that is cobbled together by different manufacturers, who seem not to talk to each other. When something goes wrong, they blame each other rather than trying to work things out.

Exactly my point.
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bcooter
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« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2012, 03:36:55 AM »
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I would love to know the repair numbers or percentages of all professional cameras.

My canons (except one original 1ds) have all had their shutters replaced, (which Canon did very quickly and cost effectively) my Nikons have gone in for a few focus issues (nothing major), one Leica lens for focus alignment, but in the 6 years of my Phase backs I've never had any issue or repair.  None, nada and I shoot a lot of sessions in a day, a lot of images.

(I take that back I had one bad 3rd party firewire cord).

I've only had one issue with software in the first version of 4.0, the rest prior and past were bulletproof.

I also understand the new Hasselblad H systems are robust, with the only issue being that software requires a fast graphics card for processing and tethering.  

I also wouldn't worry about an H system and a Phase back as Phase has a lot of experience with that combination, being they were instrumental in the original digital interface of the H.

Phase does have a dealer oriented support system so the dealer is as important as the product.

Both of the Phase dealers that advertise on this forum can give you straight information on any system, any glitches and both will stand behind the product and for the record I get no special deals from any of these dealers, other than excellent service.

In fact both of these dealers will tell you of any issue before you buy on any product they represent, even if it diminishes their sales.  

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 04:11:51 AM by bcooter » Logged
bcooter
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« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2012, 04:12:58 AM »
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One other thing.

I've had issues in the past with cameras and camera companies and looking back I believe I was too vocal online about the problems.

Not that they didn't happen but I and others should remember that just because someone has an issue, that issue can very well be specific to them or just a few others.

With one 35mm maker I had two new pro bodies have serious issues.  The manufacturer replaced them  with two more bodies that had the same problems and on another forum I reported it.

It was all true, but then again I have a friend that used the same cameras,  shoots as much if not more than I do and pushes his cameras as hard as anyone I know and had zero issues.

I also had a marketing issue with one smaller camera maker and I know it affected my opinion and what i wrote.  That's wrong because whatever the issue, it was between me and them. No one else.

I've said it before, in goggleworld, bad news travels way too fast and seems to stick around way too long.

In todays economy every sale, every dollar is precious and before any of use go nuclear on a brand we should stop and think how it can effect real people and their lives/income.

If someone asks a question and you've had a bad experience it's just as easy to shoot out a private e-mail as it is to advertise it to the world.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm intense and live by the motto of if your a hammer the whole world is a nail, though sometimes it's much better to voice it in private rather than public, because one or two problems doesn't mean everything is wrong or bad.

In the bluntness of forum/blog/twitter talk things can seem much worse than they are.

That doesn't mean that we should purposely hide a problem, but these are not huge conglomerates hiding behind the wizard of oz curtain, these are real people that depend on a limited number of sales to put food on the table.

Just a thought.

IMO

BC
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FredBGG
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« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2012, 04:43:12 AM »
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....
My canons (except one original 1ds) have all had their shutters replaced, (which Canon did very quickly and cost effectively) my Nikons have gone in for a few focus issues (nothing major), one Leica lens for focus alignment, but in the 6 years of my Phase backs I've never had any issue or repair.  None, nada and I shoot a lot of sessions in a day, a lot of images.
....

BC

The P series back you have (like the one I had) is built like a tank, quite simple, almost no moving parts.
it's the cameras, lenses and grip that are a problem. You don't use the Phase One DF, your years of experience are with
another camera system... the  Contax 645 as can be seen in the video
where you shot the Phase One Campaign even though the Contax logo was covered.

http://youtu.be/zK7OqKm2xac

« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 04:50:45 AM by FredBGG » Logged
kdphotography
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« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2012, 05:04:41 AM »
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....

Phase does have a dealer oriented support system so the dealer is as important as the product.

Both of the Phase dealers that advertise on this forum can give you straight information on any system, any glitches and both will stand behind the product and for the record I get no special deals from any of these dealers, other than excellent service.

In fact both of these dealers will tell you of any issue before you buy on any product they represent, even if it diminishes their sales.  

IMO

BC

+1.

Oh, and Ebay isn't an authorized dealer (unless an authorized dealer is the seller).   Wink
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kdphotography
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« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2012, 05:10:54 AM »
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....

If someone asks a question and you've had a bad experience it's just as easy to shoot out a private e-mail as it is to advertise it to the world.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm intense and live by the motto of if your a hammer the whole world is a nail, though sometimes it's much better to voice it in private rather than public, because one or two problems doesn't mean everything is wrong or bad.

In the bluntness of forum/blog/twitter talk things can seem much worse than they are.

That doesn't mean that we should purposely hide a problem, but these are not huge conglomerates hiding behind the wizard of oz curtain, these are real people that depend on a limited number of sales to put food on the table.

Just a thought.

IMO

BC

+1.

It gets old and tiresome really quick.  A hasty generalization is inaccurate, misleading, and not helpful to the forum community.

ken
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FredBGG
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« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2012, 05:56:02 AM »
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.......
In todays economy every sale, every dollar is precious and before any of use go nuclear on a brand we should stop and think how it can effect real people and their lives/income.
.......

IMO

BC

There are several ways to look at this. Some photographers side with the camera manufacturer (who also happens to be a client) while others choose to
let photographers know about a particular camera systems problems and limitations as well as viable alternatives.


Also flaky cameras can be a real problem to photographers lives and income especially if they are a big investment and much of the marketing is based on exaggerated claims.

Maybe Phase One should think about the livelyhood of photographers when it features a video of a photographer claiming (with a bogus demonstration) that high speed sync is impossible with a DSLR.
This is BS marketing leading a photographer to believe that he or she has to invest huge amounts of money on an MF system rather than simply use a slightly different technique.
And when high speed flash sync has been available on 35mm DSLR cameras for a long time also reaching faster speeds. Not to mention that 35mm DSLR cameras can do it with all the lenses.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=71679.msg568903#msg568903
Thread on the flash sync issue.
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abiggs
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« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2012, 06:26:58 AM »
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Geez, this gets old.

Fred, I am an African wildlife photographer. I spend many months of my year outdoors in wide open Land Rovers. Heat. Dust. Humidity. My gear gets banged around a bunch. I shoot with a DF, a bunch of Phase and Mamiya lenses ranging from 28mm all the way up to a manual focus Mamiya 300mm f/2.8 APO. I have an IQ160 back.

Everything works for me. I am a satisfied customer. You obviously weren't. You moved on. We get it. The horse is dead and we are tired of your rants. Go out and use whatever equipment you own and make compelling photographs that stir the soul.
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Andy Biggs
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2012, 06:49:33 AM »
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Hi,

Nice to hear you are happy with Phase and Mamiya ;-)

Best regards
Erik


Geez, this gets old.

Fred, I am an African wildlife photographer. I spend many months of my year outdoors in wide open Land Rovers. Heat. Dust. Humidity. My gear gets banged around a bunch. I shoot with a DF, a bunch of Phase and Mamiya lenses ranging from 28mm all the way up to a manual focus Mamiya 300mm f/2.8 APO. I have an IQ160 back.

Everything works for me. I am a satisfied customer. You obviously weren't. You moved on. We get it. The horse is dead and we are tired of your rants. Go out and use whatever equipment you own and make compelling photographs that stir the soul.
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KLaban
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« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2012, 12:20:27 PM »
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There are several ways to look at this. Some photographers side with the camera manufacturer (who also happens to be a client)...

Rather spooky perhaps, but I tend to be harder on the manufacturer/s of the camera/s (clients or not) I use rather than the manufacturers of cameras I don't use.

What I see here all too often is comment/opinion based on everything other than use.
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Rob C
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« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2012, 12:56:00 PM »
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Today I saw a nice red Ferrari in the yacht club parking bay. I made my normal, first, establishing shot, and when I moved on to take more, the bloody cellphone refused to work, telling me its battery was hungry and wouldn't function without some food. So I've lost a good opportunity of adding some more images to the collection.

Irony? When I returned on my way out from the postprandial stroll, the car was still there, but surrounded by small boys clicking away at the damned thing... 

I don't think a lot of battery-operated cameras of any brand or format.

Rob C
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FredBGG
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« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2012, 02:46:56 PM »
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Geez, this gets old.

Fred, I am an African wildlife photographer. I spend many months of my year outdoors in wide open Land Rovers. Heat. Dust. Humidity. My gear gets banged around a bunch. I shoot with a DF, a bunch of Phase and Mamiya lenses ranging from 28mm all the way up to a manual focus Mamiya 300mm f/2.8 APO. I have an IQ160 back.

Everything works for me. I am a satisfied customer. You obviously weren't. You moved on. We get it. The horse is dead and we are tired of your rants. Go out and use whatever equipment you own and make compelling photographs that stir the soul.

It does not get old with everyone. I get plenty of messages thanking me for sharing my experience having owned Phase One gear.

Glad to here you are happy so far. Must be a rather recent move for you as there is little mention of your Phase One shooting on your blog.
I can understand you being happy with Phase One as they supply Phase One cameras to you for your private jet luxury photo Safari customers at way under market
rental costs.

For what it's worth I have recommended your Safaris to some of my celebrity clients. I was born in South Africa and lived in Rhodesia and Zambia as well.
Because of that I often get asked about shooting in Africa.

As for this comment of yours:

Quote
The horse is dead and we are tired of your rants. Go out and use whatever equipment you own and make compelling photographs that stir the soul.

You don't have to read my posts. I also don't need condescending comments telling me to go out and take images that stir the soul.

On the subject of stirring the soul just to give other readers here a bit more of an idea what type of photographer I am I recently had
the experience of photographing two wonderful actors. Both times it was right before they passed away, one very unexpectedley . Despite being offered large sums
for the last photos of these two I chose to give them only to their family and as a gift. I can assure you that they stirred the soul.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 03:09:28 PM by FredBGG » Logged
Analog6
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« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2012, 02:54:40 PM »
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Take into account that a women will not be able to handheld the Mamiya DF camera for more than 60 seconds.
The Mamiya with two sets of batteries, lens and digital back is much heavier than a complete H4D camera with a lens of similar focal length.
Your choice is easy, if you want to share equipment with another photographer.

I don't have any trouble holding mine for more than 60 secs, and I'm a 59 yr old not very fit woman.  I have a H2/P20 and 50-110 zoom, and believe me, that's the one that's heavy to hold.  My 645DF/Leaf22 & 105-201 is nowhere near as heavy.  Anyway, my monopod is my friend with these MFD big lens combos, and I recommend them to all female togs.  Even with my Canon FF &  long lens the nands get tired and I use the monopod.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2012, 03:30:59 PM »
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I don't have any trouble holding mine for more than 60 secs, and I'm a 59 yr old not very fit woman.  I have a H2/P20 and 50-110 zoom, and believe me, that's the one that's heavy to hold.  My 645DF/Leaf22 & 105-201 is nowhere near as heavy.  Anyway, my monopod is my friend with these MFD big lens combos, and I recommend them to all female togs.  Even with my Canon FF &  long lens the nands get tired and I use the monopod.

+1 Monopod and tripod are instrumental to high quality images especially for lenses and cameras without image stabilization.

I have windsurfed and kitesurfed all my like hand have the "steel grip" of a windsurfer, huge hands (size 15 shoes), fit 230 lbs, but the monopod is my friend too.

Even hand held.. hanging a carbon monopod with a bit of weight on it like a couple of larger batteries under an MF camera helps stability... a bit like a poor man's steady cam.
I used to attach this Canon charger with a couple of batteries on it to a carbon monopod under the DF. Not much extra weight, but adds stability while keeping mobility.
Great battery life extension too for Phase backs. The charger doubles up as a multiple battery holder as well as being a great dual battery charger.

Here is the charger:



Also great for keeping batteries warn under your coat when shooting in a very cold climate.

Plenty of them on ebay. Very high quality power supply. Designed for Canons higher end prosumer video cameras.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2012, 03:43:14 PM »
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Take into account that a women will not be able to handheld the Mamiya DF camera for more than 60 seconds.
The Mamiya with two sets of batteries, lens and digital back is much heavier than a complete H4D camera with a lens of similar focal length.
Your choice is easy, if you want to share equipment with another photographer.


I am sorry, this is incorrect.

1.78 KG/3 lbs, 1 Oz - H4D-60 Body, Back, Grip
2.3 KG/5 lbs, 1 Oz - H4D-60 Body, Back, Grip, 80mm HC Lens

1.86 KG/4 lbs, 2 Oz - DF Body, P40+ Back, Grip
2.38 KG/5 lbs, 4 Oz - DF Body, P40+ Back, Grip, 80mm LS Lens

1.9 KG/4 lbs, 3 Oz - DF Body, IQ180+ Back, Grip
2.42 KG/5 lbs, 5 Oz - DF Body, IQ180+ Back, Grip, 80mm LS Lens


With the lens, the systems are within a few ounces of each other. The Phase/Schneider lenses generally weigh less than their Hasselblad counterparts, so unless the female photographer was intending to shoot without a lens, her support strain will be equivalent with either system.


Not discussing the back, is there a real difference in quality?

Would it be worth it to not get the Mamiya add-on when buying a Phase or Leaf Credo, finding a used H1 or H2 and than upgrading to a H4x?


As far as mixing systems, the Leaf and H4X issues are well documented. However, we rent Phase One DB's on H4X cameras all the time, and they work the same way they do on an H1 or H2 camera (operationally). I too am somewhat cautious about mixing and matching systems. However, I feel it is more of an issue with short term upgrading options. If you're the type who intends to use for 3-5-7 years on a system, if it has a track record of working well, I think you're ok, in general. We don't have too many issues with Leaf or Phase users on Contax or Hasselblad V platforms, for example.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve Hendrix
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Rob C
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« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2012, 04:08:48 PM »
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I have windsurfed and kitesurfed all my like hand have the "steel grip" of a windsurfer, huge hands (size 15 shoes), fit 230 lbs, but the monopod is my friend too.



Goodnes me, Fred, is a surfboard really necessary?

Sorry, no offence Fred, just couldn't let than one slip past after eleven at night! Blame the battery that let me down at my Ferrari 'opportunity' today; really did piss me off.

;-)

Rob C
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abiggs
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« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2012, 04:21:59 PM »
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I can understand you being happy with Phase One as they supply Phase One cameras to you for your private jet luxury photo Safari customers at way under market rental costs.

uh huh. Private jets don't land where I go. And I buy all of my gear. No need to make those incorrect remarks.
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Andy Biggs
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