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Author Topic: Hassy vs. Mamiya  (Read 11356 times)
Schewe
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« Reply #80 on: December 30, 2012, 01:33:44 AM »
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He's Fred Greissing,...

Oh goodie...his Facebook says his fav quote is "Oh Shit"...

That's useful...

Oh, did you notice he's "sponsored" by Tamrac?

Yeah, that'll buy you tons of cred...

NOT!

Sorry, doesn't really say "listen to me, I know my shit"...

Ya know?
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KLaban
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« Reply #81 on: December 30, 2012, 03:52:21 AM »
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I guessed you missed the wink icons.

How could anyone miss your irritating little winks that go glove in hand with your irritating little put-downs.

It's a damn shame Guy is leaving the forum.
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Rob C
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« Reply #82 on: December 30, 2012, 03:54:13 AM »
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You know, some of you guys should grow up. You find it fun to round on one guy who tells it like he's found it, and then because his view doesn't suit your own agendas you turn him into a witch.

Eric Kaffehr made a very good assessment a couple of posts ago, level-headed and controlled. Why not take a lead from him if you like to follow someone else in these matters?

Sitting here on this wee island, reading this stuff, the world-view many of you project out of your own society isn't a very pretty one at all. It comes over as quite vicious, almost bullying. I've been in the victim situation myself and I read the signs of gathering intent easily.  As in my own case, offering an open challenge to battle every single one of the mothers in the gym on an individual basis did nothing; the pack attack was always the rule. Just like the hyaena, then.

Many years ago, not long after I started to take an interest in LuLa, I opened a thread on photographic styles and mentioned the then 'star' LaChapelle; before I knew it, I had a long list of people crying for my blood, most of them having never read my original proposition, but taking up the cudgels from a baseline of the immediate post before their own. Someone even opened a thread purposely designed to attack me, personally and by name. That's the beauty of the Internet: irresponsibility and freedom to strut crap whenever the mood takes.

LuLa's moved on from there; live and let live, and if you don't like an expressed view, say why and offer a good reason to suppot your alternative opinion. But don't get personal because in the end, the only person you discedit is yourself.

Rob C
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Rob C
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« Reply #83 on: December 30, 2012, 03:58:35 AM »
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Oh goodie...his Facebook says his fav quote is "Oh Shit"...

That's useful...

Oh, did you notice he's "sponsored" by Tamrac?

Yeah, that'll buy you tons of cred...

NOT!

Sorry, doesn't really say "listen to me, I know my shit"...Ya know?



True; but his photography does,

Rob C
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KLaban
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« Reply #84 on: December 30, 2012, 04:03:23 AM »
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You know, some of you guys should grow up.

...or we could throw our toys out of the pram and "quit" the forum, perhaps?

 Wink

Damn, those irritating little winks are catching.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 04:15:58 AM by KLaban » Logged

FredBGG
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« Reply #85 on: December 30, 2012, 04:44:01 AM »
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Oh goodie...his Facebook says his fav quote is "Oh Shit"...

That's useful...

Oh Shit... is my favorite quote because it was what me and a good friend said to each other on a memorable day
kite surfing a giant swell in Malibu. We said that as a big wave peeled off the other reef. We both rode the wave and with a good dose of luck
made it to the beach. Once we made it to the we looked at each other and guess what we said... Oh Shit... but this time the smile was bigger.

I think that if anyone else here has surfed a 25 foot wave during an epic south swell in Cali they would understand why I like that quote.

It was never intended to be useful.

When ever I meet the same friend at the beach and conditions are looking like a hand full and a lot of fun we look at each other and say... Oh Shit... with a smile.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 05:25:48 AM by FredBGG » Logged
Gel
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« Reply #86 on: December 30, 2012, 05:21:04 AM »
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I love it when bored togs network on forums at Christmas.
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Chris Giles Photography
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« Reply #87 on: December 30, 2012, 06:08:40 AM »
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How could anyone miss your irritating little winks that go glove in hand with your irritating little put-downs.

It's a damn shame Guy is leaving the forum.

Frankly I understand him and am in much same direction; a reduction on my behalf to rarely reading any thread headings here nowadays, and some limited reading posts.

Why?

Why waste time???

- FrankBGG
- Posters constant argue DSLR (35mm kind) is quality same as MFDB and few have even worked much if anything using MFDB, and some(one) occasional constant argue DSLR (35mm kind) stitching vs MFDB
- Attacking when one writes to advise on MFDB or medium format camera.

Above change on LuLa has occurred over the last 2-3 years or so,  during an increase in pixels of DSLR (35mm kind) which seeming have made people go blind om pixels, and has made LuLa into much a waste to spend time by certain character of posters indicated by my above dragging you deeper and deeper. Many folks seem frank much too blinded on marketing volume of Nikon, Canon and the likes in my humble opinion...

Above said, there are still numerous respectful gents and girls on LuLa who have been here for many years and who and whos writings I much appreciate and respect. It is a shame really that the forum is not maintained proper by Micheal et. al. for it to remain more mature and in order.

Going back to OP, and the actual point I looked at this thread; Hassy vs. Mamiya. When looking at a system, I suggest doing a search of images shot with lenses using the different systems. I had Mamiya 645 system with a Leaf back prior and I gave up on Mamiya because I became flat tired of their products, lack of tolerances, problem with support from Japan. Also the newest 645DF+ stem from an ancient and poorly designed camera. Also the newest LS lenses look like toys. The 45mm D was the sharpest of the Mamiya lenses I had but lacked in character. The 80mm 1.9 N was actually my favorite. Now I use Rolleiflex Hy6 with 80MP back, and the Rolleiflex Schneider 80mm 2.8 PQ Xenotar AFS is the best lens I have used. It is very sharp even wide open, and the character of the bokeh is smooth. If I need more shallow DOF I attach an extension ring and move closer, but I admit really difficult to focus personal images with our little moving baby daughter in front of camera and such shallow DOF! Do a search of images shot with that Xenotar on flickr.com / flickriver.com, say by typing in '6008 80mm Xenotar 2.8', and then 'Mamiya 80mm LS' and 'Hasselblad 80mm HC'. Looking at the bokeh, the Xenotar is best to my eyes, with the Hassy 80 HC second to my eye. The Mamiya LS 80/2.8 with glass made by Schneider seem surprising to lack the fine fine out of focus rendering of the Scheider Xenotar. Also... not having used the H camera, it looks light years ahead comfortable than the Mamiya cameras. Do take a look at the Hy6, it is a superb camera and system (search for my writing on it elsewhere on this forum). All the Rolleiflex lenses frank seem very top notch ahead of Hassy and Mamiya. Not even the Leica M Noctilux of Summilux have as smooth bokeh.

Just my 2c...

Happy New Year to the good people still around here Smiley

Best regards,
Anders
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 06:25:45 AM by Anders_HK » Logged
Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #88 on: December 30, 2012, 06:15:23 AM »
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I enjoy Fred´s postings - he is making this forum a lot more colorful and this is what makes things interesting.
As much as  being "nice" may sound "nice", telling opinions makes life more easy and defines what we are looking for.
People who never struggle or go square are simply boring.
Aren´t here grownups speaking ? I know there are netiquette rules and this is important.
But telling each other how nice we find the other one is not a conversation that makes much sense to me.
Fred has his opinion and he stands to it.
I think this is good ! I wish more people would do this.Would make life a lot easier and clearer.

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
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FredBGG
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« Reply #89 on: December 30, 2012, 06:38:35 AM »
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I think a few people need to calm down here.....

My response to Guy ... the one with the two winks was not some evil attack like some want to
make it look like.

Seeing he directly rebutted a posting I had made recommending Adorama or BH for good prices on Mamiya lenses that are the same
design as the Phase One lenses that are actually made by Mamiya I responded.

His answer started with a rather condescending Sorry..... and then he goes on about Phase Gear when I was recommending BH and Adorama for Mamiya gear.

If BH and Adorama are so bad .... why are they Leaf Mamiya dealers?

Why is it so OK to buy Nikon gear from them and not MF gear from them.

Does Mamiya Leaf not service gear sold by them. As far as I know they do.

I pointed out that he is sponsored by who he is recommending.
The only relationship I have with BH is that of a customer.
I have been a BH customer for over 20 years.
I simply think that it is fair that readers, especially those that are new to the forum or simply guests to know
if someone is recommending someone that pays them to advertise their product or services. Especially if that person is
contradicting another persons suggestion.

No several other forums I go to there is a rule about "pimping" (their words not mine) gear. If a member has any affiliation or sponsorship
it has to be in their posting signature. It is that way on forums of many different fields such as performance sports equipment, racing bikes etc.
Could be a good idea for these forums.

Hey mine could be ex-Phase One user.

I think that readers like to hear both sides as this is called a DISCUSSION FORUM.

I was sponsored for many years by Polaroid for shooting 8x10 Polaroid for main stream fashion and beauty editorials.
I certainly received special treatment as a result of that. My only endorsement was to have my photo credit read
"Polaroid by" instead of "Photo by". However that is a thing of the past as Polaroid no longer makes 8x10 instant film.
I also used Polaroids for ads.... actually saved my ass once when the film got mangled. Client was happy with the Polaroids, but it was a sort
of abstract type of image that lent itself well to the Polaroid look.

While some want to paint me as being negative... I think I have done my fair share of helping... including Jack (Guys partener on GetDPI.com) regarding an Elinchrom sale.
He had received an inquiry from from a buyer in Singapore. but the Elinchrom Micro that he was selling unlike some other Elinchrom products
is not self detecting dual voltage or dual voltage at all. Understandable confusion. The USA runs on 110 60hz. Singapore runs on 220 50hz. I hastely pointed this out
avoiding nasty return shipping costs and a potential accident. Shipping studio lights to Singapore and back isn't cheap. I hate to see
that happens if a 3000w/s flash pack gets plugged into 220 v instead or 110v. Very fast recycle time.... and a bang... yikes.
I was pretty sure about this as I had Elinchrom packs in Europe that
could not be used here in the US (had to buy new ones) so seeing I had the email for a tech guy at Elinchrom in Switzerland I checked and they confirmed that they had never made
a dual voltage Micro AS pack.

here are the photos I took of my packs for him in case his sticker had come off his pack.





Still sitting on my flickr account.

Well I'm done scanning film for the night.....
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KLaban
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« Reply #90 on: December 30, 2012, 06:49:12 AM »
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It is a shame really that the forum is not maintained proper by Micheal et. al. for it to remain more mature and in order.

I have to disagree; one of the strengths of this forum is the hands-off approach of the owners and moderators.

Fred is an accomplished photographer and I value his input, but draw the line when by implication he questions the honesty and integrity of his peers.
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #91 on: December 30, 2012, 07:19:13 AM »
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I have to disagree; one of the strengths of this forum is the hands-off approach of the owners and moderators.

Fred is an accomplished photographer and I value his input, but draw the line when by implication he questions the honesty and integrity of his peers.


Exactly my point and thank you. In this thread alone he has done this with at least 2 working Pros that just happen to be both PODAS instructors, run there own workshops, one a owner of another forum , one a producer of camera bags. Plus both Phase shooters that happen to like there gear they use. I will not tolerate these kinds of integrity crap. It's bullshit and we all know it. It just so happens the owner of this forum and partners are PODAS instructors , run there own workshops are Phase shooters and are working  Pros. I can add Jeff Schewe to this mix here as well. It's these underlining we are on the take stuff that is intolerable . I will not continue to post anywhere when my words are twisted by a Troll for his own benefit and twist them into lies and misinformation. I will also always stand by other working Pros when I see them being slammed for no other good reasons as well.

BTW B&H also is a affiliate on my forum and I been buying from them for over 40 years as I grew up in the New York area and attended the School of Visual arts there back in 1976. I visit the store every time I'm back in NY. Most amazing photo store in the world. Guess I'm bias about that too and yes I do make some income from that . Maybe a hot dog per week. LOL
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JoeKitchen
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« Reply #92 on: December 30, 2012, 07:24:12 AM »
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When the hell did this go nuclear?  Thanks for the advice, those who actually shared advice.
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Joe Kitchen
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"Try not to be just better than your rivals and contemporaries, try to be better than yourself."  William Faulkner
KLaban
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« Reply #93 on: December 30, 2012, 07:43:56 AM »
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When the hell did this go nuclear?

Putting a vs. in the thread title is tantamount to lighting the blue touch paper.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #94 on: December 30, 2012, 07:48:18 AM »
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Hi,

I agree with Keith on all issues.

I would just add that asking opinions on Hasselblad vs. Phase/Mamiya before spending 20000$ or so is a very smart thing.

The other issue I'm quite serious about everyone having the right to present an opinion without her or his integrity be put to question.

Best regards
Erik


I have to disagree; one of the strengths of this forum is the hands-off approach of the owners and moderators.

Fred is an accomplished photographer and I value his input, but draw the line when by implication he questions the honesty and integrity of his peers.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 08:23:51 AM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

Gel
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Excuse me while I bust a cap


« Reply #95 on: December 30, 2012, 08:28:46 AM »
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HEY GUYS! I'M BAAACK!

I've got beer and twizzlers for everyone, I even found somewhere that had twinkie's!

Did I miss anything?
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Chris Giles Photography
ndevlin
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« Reply #96 on: December 30, 2012, 09:07:51 AM »
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Fred,

I feel someone needs to say this to you in a non-confrontational manner: your tone on this thread has really offended a number of members, several of whom are very accomplished professionals whose presence here is a real value to the LL community.  Based on your last post, I assume this was not your intention.  Clearly, you have strong feelings about the subjects contained in your posts on this thread, and enjoy expressing them. That's fine.

What's not fine is continuing in the same way when it has become clear that your actions have offended others.  The normal, socially appropriate response of one who has unintentionally offended others whom he respects is to express concern and regret,  to clarify that no offense was meant, and to modify his expressive approach to avoid a repeat. 

Dealers are not all crooks, camera makers are not schysters, and few if any photographers are 'bought' mouth pieces for manufacturers.  In fact, on reflection, most photographers have commercial relationships with companies *because they like and trust the product from their own use*, not because they get some gear at less-than-retail from it.  You can't seriously think that Andy or James Russell have compromised their independence or judgment by doing business with camera makers as client. Being a working professional yourself, you know this.   

I'd like you to stay on the forums as a constructive voice, but an apology is needed, whether you think so or not.  You have offended valued, senior members of this community to the extent they contemplate leaving the forum.  By doing that, you harm the community you seek to contribute to.  You may genuinely feel you have done nothing wrong and that others are too thin-skinned. That's fine. But if you are the gentleman I hope and imagine you to be, righting the unintended slight, not proving you're in the right, should be your immediate priority.

Regards,

- N.


ps. Joe: you got hijacked in the worst way. My 2c: Hassy cameras (H4 and H5) have an advantage with Truefocus for studio work, and offer more leaf shutter lenes.  The phase backs offer a look and feel and operation that many prefer. Their backs are also likely more versatile for tech camera use. Beyond that, it's mostly a matter of personal taste and where you get the best deal. 
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Rob C
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« Reply #97 on: December 30, 2012, 11:24:17 AM »
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...or we could throw our toys out of the pram and "quit" the forum, perhaps?

 Wink

Damn, those irritating little winks are catching.


We could indeed, Keith, but doing that demands the right reasons. Last time I did that was without any personal attack aimed at myself. The reason I did it was I got sick of the bitterness in the 'financial disaster' threads that were running, the caustic and sarcastic language (often poorly done which, in a sense, made it worse) used, and the realisation that if I ever wanted to do anything with my time that was better than sitting on my ass before a monitor, then I had to get a life beyond it. Then, looking around for a few weeks, I concluded that there was no winter life out here, just more expats with gout, cigars and a liking for beer. Hobson's friggin' choice! Hell, even the jazz sessions were stopped because of lack of bodies to sell drinks to in the bars... as someone said, Muerto Pollensa.

Frankly, I'm surprised that anyone still working in the profession has the time to get involved on Internet chat shows such as we do here; when I was still working, when I had downtime my only desire was to go find some new work to pay the bills! Times seem to have changed, or snappers got richer.

By the way - the toys never left the pram; I learned that the hard way some years ago. Keep everything; you never know when it might come in useful. God bless you, 500 Series, and please forgive me for throwing you out - I want you back!

;-)

Rob C
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FredBGG
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« Reply #98 on: December 30, 2012, 03:22:15 PM »
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Exactly my point and thank you. In this thread alone he has done this with at least 2 working Pros that just happen to be both PODAS instructors, run there own workshops, one a owner of another forum , one a producer of camera bags. Plus both Phase shooters that happen to like there gear they use. I will not tolerate these kinds of integrity crap. It's bullshit and we all know it. It just so happens the owner of this forum and partners are PODAS instructors , run there own workshops are Phase shooters and are working  Pros. I can add Jeff Schewe to this mix here as well. It's these underlining we are on the take stuff that is intolerable . I will not continue to post anywhere when my words are twisted by a Troll for his own benefit and twist them into lies and misinformation. I will also always stand by other working Pros when I see them being slammed for no other good reasons as well.

BTW B&H also is a affiliate on my forum and I been buying from them for over 40 years as I grew up in the New York area and attended the School of Visual arts there back in 1976. I visit the store every time I'm back in NY. Most amazing photo store in the world. Guess I'm bias about that too and yes I do make some income from that . Maybe a hot dog per week. LOL

That is quite an accusation.

While I apologize for how my rather matter of fact postings may have been taken the wrong way but accusing me of lying and to my own benefit
is a pretty harsh accusation. I have never accused you of lying. I also don't see how any of this is to my benefit. My clients don't read these forums.
If anything my presenting other options (that are often less expensive) to photographers benefits my competition if anything.
I also recall a while ago we had both discussed the Nikon 200mm f2 and that you were getting one. I recall that at the time you wanted one.
I too was looking for one and I remember asking you if you were thinking of bidding on one that was for sale and I asked you if you were interested
in it too because I did not want to bid against you. I did not need one with any urgency.

As for your affiliation to Phase One, their dealers and BH I think that it is also a good thing and I have not questioned it as being dishonest
in any way. However I think that a clear statement of one's affiliation in one's signature would be good think, especially for readers that are new
to the forums or are passing guests looking for information. Ones affiliations are also a good thing. While it is a good disclosure it is also qualifying in that
it indicates that one has a good line towards information and is a good candidate to approach for information. The disclosure part of it I think
lets the reader who is making an important decision use the information more effectively.

Regarding the BH affiliate program it is quite effective and used by many websites.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73668.0;attach=72157

Quote
B&H Affiliate Program

Join today and begin earning commission on every product we sell!

No cost to join.
Monthly commission.
Low minimum payout of $20.
Ready to use banners.
Reports include items sold.

We’ll Pay...
Monthly commission begins at 2% with the possibility for increased percentage based upon performance. In addition, we offer 8% commission on a growing list of about 2000 products from any of the following brands:

Audio Engine
Bolt
Bose
Helder
Impact
Kopul
Magnus
Oben
Pearstone
Ruggard
Sound Device
Vello
Watson
Xcellon
Xuma


It is a nice way to support your favorite forums and bloggers.

2% on sales can add up nicely. Guy has a banner right on his website. Just go to BH through that banner
before putting anything in your basket. Costs you nothing as far as I know.

If he has this affiliation buying $ 5000 worth of gear lets you pass on to him (or other sites) $ 100.


don't click this... it's just an image. You need to go to his site.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 08:36:23 PM by FredBGG » Logged
geesbert
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« Reply #99 on: January 01, 2013, 03:12:24 AM »
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If at all something needs to get banned from this forum it's those daft smileys. If your language skills are not adequate to show you're in a ironic mood, adding a yellow little twinky can be overseen too easily
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 08:42:22 AM by geesbert » Logged

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