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Author Topic: Scratches on film just back from Lab.  (Read 3599 times)
dreidesq
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« on: December 27, 2012, 10:46:11 AM »
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Hello all,

Hope your Christmas's have gone well and are revving up for the New Year celebrations?

Just got some film back from the lab and I'd would like to say I'm happy with the results.

I sent off three films x1 colour slide film and x2 400 Ilford B&W.
What I got back was x1 colour film which has got long deep scratches on it and although I have the other two B&W films returned, one of them isn't mine and is of some random very "friendly" looking girl who does't like of wear a lot of clothing.

Needless to say happy is not one of the descriptive words I'd like to use on this occasion.

I have checked the film cassette and can't see any reason that could cause mid film long deep scratches. Besides I have already run through another batch of film through that cassette and had no scratches previously. Hmmmm

What do you guys think? Lab fault or user error?

I'm thinking it's probably the lab as they have been lax enough to send me porn instead of the B&W landscapes I took. I hope they havn't lost my roll.
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k bennett
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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2012, 11:55:46 AM »
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I would not use that lab again, along with sending them a strongly worded letter with the photos you attached. While it was common back in the film days to have some minor scratches on film that was run through a roller-transport processor, these are beyond anything acceptable.

As for the other issue, not sure what to suggest. That has not happened to me.
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Gandalf
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« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2012, 12:07:57 PM »
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1. Find a new lab. Make sure they use a dip and dunk processor where nothing touches the film like a Refrema.
2. Check the film path on the camera, especially the edges of the pressure plate.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 12:15:50 PM by Gandalf » Logged
DanielStone
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2012, 12:17:57 PM »
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1. Find a new lab. Make sure they use a dip and dunk processor where nothing touches the film like a Refrema.
2. Check the film cassette again. It sounds like you are bulk loading film and there are a lot of places where the film could be scratched. Check the cassette and loader very carefully.
3. Check the film path on the camera, especially the edges of the pressure plate.

Definitely find a new lab. Those look like roller transport marks, or someone with a gripe dragged your film across the floor Wink

@Gandalf:
These shots were made on 120 film, not 35mm. You can't 'bulk load' 120 film.
120 film also has a paper backing which aids in lessening chances of scratching against the dark slide.

Dan
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FredBGG
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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2012, 12:46:40 PM »
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If that is 120 film and not 220 it is definitely a lab film transport problem.
They don't look like dry scratches because of how wide they are in part.
Also the scratches are not perfectly straight, while the exposures look
perfectly lined up. If the cameras film transport had made those scratches
the exposures would be a bit more misaligned to match the curve of the scratches.

Are the black and white rolls scratched too?

What camera were you using?

This is a good case for small claims court.
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k bennett
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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 01:23:32 PM »
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This is a good case for small claims court.


Every lab I ever used had a prominent disclaimer that their only liability was for the cost of a new roll of film and processing, no matter how badly they screwed up the film. This made it paramount to have a trusted, high quality local professional lab, and to have an excellent relationship with the folks who ran it. Sadly, of course, these are long gone from most of the USA.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2012, 02:10:53 PM »
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Every lab I ever used had a prominent disclaimer that their only liability was for the cost of a new roll of film and processing, no matter how badly they screwed up the film. This made it paramount to have a trusted, high quality local professional lab, and to have an excellent relationship with the folks who ran it. Sadly, of course, these are long gone from most of the USA.

Disclaimers are not worth the paper or webpage they are written on.
Unless the disclaimer is on a document signed by the customer it can be thrown out.
The scratches on this guys film are the unacceptable result of gross negligence.
This is a clear case for small claims.
Three cases against labs... all won.

There is also an interesting additional issue here. The lab sent naked photos of another customer to a third party.
I'd love to be lawyer representing her!
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dreidesq
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« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2012, 03:00:24 PM »
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Thank you for the replies.

@ Gandalf: I am already looking for another lab. I can't see anything wrong with the edges of the pressure plate.

@ Daniel Stone: This was 120 Velvia100f film and there was no paper backing.

@ FredBGG: My B&W shot from this camera is missing and been replaced by the porn. Though I did shoot another roll from the same cassette and never had a problem before. Though I am quite new to medium format. In my 35mm days this has never happened to me before.

@ K Bennett: I will be making a complaint though based on the quality of my shots in this roll they're not award winning. Though this is also the UK and it will result in a stiff strongly worded letter and a request for a refund. That will be as far as I can take it. I feel sorry for the girl as although she dose look like she was having a good time in shots feel that she will probably give the Lab a harder time than me, if she ever comes forward that is.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 03:03:11 PM by dreidesq » Logged
Gandalf
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« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2012, 06:40:19 PM »
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@Gandalf:
These shots were made on 120 film, not 35mm. You can't 'bulk load' 120 film.
120 film also has a paper backing which aids in lessening chances of scratching against the dark slide.

Dan

Yeah, hence the edit. The images weren't showing up when I responded. I think we all know it's the lab, but it's worth checking the back, film path and pressure plate. If it were the camera causing the problem the scratches would be shallower and more linear. 120 is hard to scratch in camera, not impossible, but not easy.
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kaelaria
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« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2012, 07:19:52 PM »
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I definitely think we need to see the girl pics to determine the cause Smiley
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FredBGG
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2012, 03:39:20 AM »
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Thank you for the replies.

@ K Bennett: I will be making a complaint though based on the quality of my shots in this roll they're not award winning. Though this is also the UK and it will result in a stiff strongly worded letter and a request for a refund. That will be as far as I can take it. I feel sorry for the girl as although she dose look like she was having a good time in shots feel that she will probably give the Lab a harder time than me, if she ever comes forward that is.

Do not return the photos of the girl to the lab. Tell them that you do not consider them trust worthy and tell them to have the girl contact you to arrange returning the images directly. You do not want to be in anyway involved with these images getting lost again or posted anywhere. If this happened to me I would only return film to the model directly.
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Rob C
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2012, 09:44:16 AM »
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I definitely think we need to see the girl pics to determine the cause Smiley


That's the first thing that came into my mind - the factor that would have lent this debate credibility.

Scratches made in-camera can only be parallel to the side of the film. Unless, of course, you have been using the camera on a helter-skelter, or have dropped the film, in which case, and as direct result of the disturbed laten image, they will move with the rhythm of the the bouncing motion and create very interesting designs of their own. Basic forensics, dear Watson. Perhaps the young lady's pics would show this bouncing motion effect? We have to see to comment.

Rob C
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dreidesq
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2012, 11:00:15 AM »
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Thank you for the further info.

I don't think it would be polite or correct to show the pictures of the girl so I will honour what is left of her dignity until the film is is safely in her or the photographers hands. Sorry.

I have had further confirmation that this is the fault from the lab from another lab tech who has seen his fair share of film disasters. He states that it is the chemical that has crystallised which hasn't been cleaned regularly.

Either way the lab has certainly ruined my film and I am due a refund an apology. If they can find my other B&W film in the process I won't push it and will move on to another lab.

Not the best of starts to moving back to film. I've had this Hasselblad all of a couple of months and have shot 4 rolls of film with it. 2 look great (in my opinion) 1 ruined and another is missing.

I was expecting to hate film and go running to digital. I had not expected this kind of stumbling block. My wife can attest to my "mood" yesterday as this morning she said that I seemed happier.

Well I wait for January 2nd to hear what the "Lab" has to say.

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Rob C
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2012, 12:59:20 PM »
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Thank you for the further info.

I don't think it would be polite or correct to show the pictures of the girl so I will honour what is left of her dignity until the film is is safely in her or the photographers hands. Sorry.

I have had further confirmation that this is the fault from the lab from another lab tech who has seen his fair share of film disasters. He states that it is the chemical that has crystallised which hasn't been cleaned regularly.

Either way the lab has certainly ruined my film and I am due a refund an apology. If they can find my other B&W film in the process I won't push it and will move on to another lab.

Not the best of starts to moving back to film. I've had this Hasselblad all of a couple of months and have shot 4 rolls of film with it. 2 look great (in my opinion) 1 ruined and another is missing.

I was expecting to hate film and go running to digital. I had not expected this kind of stumbling block. My wife can attest to my "mood" yesterday as this morning she said that I seemed happier.Well I wait for January 2nd to hear what the "Lab" has to say.




So she bought the story about the film with the girl shots not being yours, then? Well done!"

;-)

Rob C
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kaelaria
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« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2012, 01:53:39 PM »
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That's what I was gunna say lol
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dreidesq
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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2013, 01:57:07 AM »
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Happy New Year.

Well. Went over to the Lab yesterday.

Not surprisingly the lady owner was all "it must be your equipment that did this".
I was all like "well I have a few friends who may disagree with your point of view, plus where are my missing negs?"

After a few minutes of staring at each other, she apologised (though still not offering anything in compensation) and suggested that the "dunk and dip" process of E6 and lack of film for it may a good reason to switch to negative instead of using the E6 process. She added that my negs had gone to Twickenham and are apparently on their way back via the postman. Hmmm.

There is no way I caused the scratches. But at the end of the day it's happened and I can't change that.
It has changed my feeling about film though and am thinking using a digital back for the Hassy, then any mistake will be my own instead of this mess.

The "Artistic Nudes" have been returned to the photographer, he on the other hand is a little less even tempered and is already tearing the Lab owner a new arsehole.
I did get the impression that the girl in the shots were his model (girlfriend?) and that his partner (wife?) would be very unhappy if they found out what happened.

Regards
David.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 02:04:11 AM by dreidesq » Logged
Rob C
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« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2013, 03:33:55 AM »
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Happy New Year.

Well. Went over to the Lab yesterday.

Not surprisingly the lady owner was all "it must be your equipment that did this".
I was all like "well I have a few friends who may disagree with your point of view, plus where are my missing negs?"

After a few minutes of staring at each other, she apologised (though still not offering anything in compensation) and suggested that the "dunk and dip" process of E6 and lack of film for it may a good reason to switch to negative instead of using the E6 process. She added that my negs had gone to Twickenham and are apparently on their way back via the postman. Hmmm.

There is no way I caused the scratches. But at the end of the day it's happened and I can't change that.
It has changed my feeling about film though and am thinking using a digital back for the Hassy, then any mistake will be my own instead of this mess.

The "Artistic Nudes" have been returned to the photographer, he on the other hand is a little less even tempered and is already tearing the Lab owner a new arsehole.
I did get the impression that the girl in the shots were his model (girlfriend?) and that his partner (wife?) would be very unhappy if they found out what happened.

Regards
David.



Sight unseen, this course of action could be risky: do you think it makes sense to deport the 'model' to Mallorca?

Rob C
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dreidesq
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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2013, 04:02:50 AM »
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Nah.
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Rob C
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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2013, 07:40:23 AM »
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Another vague hope lies in tatters on the cutting-room floor.

;-(

But thanks for the advice!

;-)

Rob C
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dreidesq
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« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 02:55:36 AM »
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My "missing" roll of film has now appeared and in my grubby little paws. Untouched, unscathed and unscratched.

Though it is now a horrible reminder of my gorgeous camera equipment which has been stolen.
Depending on what the insurance company want to do I may not be shooting with a Hasselblad again. :-(

Bad Karma to all thieves.
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