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Author Topic: Contax ND vs. DMR vs. 5DII vs. Contax 645 IQ180 :-)  (Read 9304 times)
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2012, 09:44:15 AM »
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Hi,

A was in my view the harshest, to me it had an grainy, oversharpened look.
D was smoothest and very sharp
So I needed to decide between B and C

I felt B was slightly smoother and still sharper than C

Best regards
Erik


Apart from a magenta cast in B, they are all practically the same (no wonder, given they've all been reduced to 6 MPx). Would love if someone (Henrik?) would be so kind to point out the differences.
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2012, 02:12:47 PM »
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Erik,
I find your post sort of telling.  Your personal preference is tuned to the DSLR. Did you read in the thread which was which before you made your post?    It was obvious to me by looking at the glass reflections in the viewfinder and bottle and lens which camera had performed the best.  Also I have one of those color passports and could compare the color accuracy.   
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2012, 03:09:34 PM »
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I think the test would have been much more interesting had we not been told which cameras participated. Just four images, labeled A-D, and asked to rank them in terms of quality.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2012, 03:25:02 PM »
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Hi Eric,

You are probably right that I'm tuned to DSLR rendering, that is what I shoot...

The way I compared the images was to open each of them in Photoshop, and looked at them tiled at actual pixels. There were to images that were standing out, one was A which I felt had an oversharpened and grainy look, the other was D which I felt smooth and very sharp.

Next I tried to decide B and C, and I think I preferred B. Finally I compared B against D. I still felt D was the better one.


After sorting the image I looked at the EXIFs. I really assumed that D would be IQ 180. I actually didn't have the slightest idea a Canon was in the test.

I enclose a screen dump. This is not crop I initially checked, BTW. I was a bit surprised after the initial comparison so I choose another crop and reevaluated, the screen dump is from the second evaluation. When doing my evaluation I didn't have the slightest idea what to expect.

It could be that I happen to have a preference for OLP-filtered image while you have a strong preference for unfiltered images?

I did not check color rendition at all. I'll see if I can check out using Imatest for accuracy, but I presume that neither image is very accurate.


Best regards
Erik


Erik,
I find your post sort of telling.  Your personal preference is tuned to the DSLR. Did you read in the thread which was which before you made your post?    It was obvious to me by looking at the glass reflections in the viewfinder and bottle and lens which camera had performed the best.  Also I have one of those color passports and could compare the color accuracy.  
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 04:19:27 PM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2012, 03:37:56 PM »
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Hi Eric,

I did a very quick check. Imported A-D jpegs into Lightroom rotated and cropped the CCS and exported to a folder. Opened each image in Imatest and got the enclosed results

If we check second row of the imatest results Delta C*ab mean error:

A:  10.4

B:  10.1

C:  8.69

D: 8.11

So neither is very accurate, but D is most accurate and A is least accurate. I don't think this comparison is very meaningful, but this is what I got.

Imatest is a well respected program developed by Norman Koren, http://www.imatest.com.

Best regards
Erik

Erik,
I find your post sort of telling.  Your personal preference is tuned to the DSLR. Did you read in the thread which was which before you made your post?    It was obvious to me by looking at the glass reflections in the viewfinder and bottle and lens which camera had performed the best.  Also I have one of those color passports and could compare the color accuracy.  
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 03:52:17 PM by ErikKaffehr » Logged

EricWHiss
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« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2012, 06:14:18 PM »
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Erik,
You love to push the pixels into all these charts and tests, but that has nothing to do with what I did or the others.  They looked at bokeh, DOF, etc. 
Kind of like not being able to see the forest through the trees.  You can recognize the sound of a piano regardless of whether it is in tune or not. 


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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2012, 06:27:15 PM »
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Another question: isn't DOF supposed to be equalized by the different f/stops?
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Slobodan

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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2012, 06:43:05 PM »
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Hi Eric,

I did not even try to sort out which one was which. Just compared the four images.

Regarding the color charts it was mostly because you referred to the color checker.

Best regards
Erik

Quote
Erik,
I find your post sort of telling.  Your personal preference is tuned to the DSLR. Did you read in the thread which was which before you made your post?    It was obvious to me by looking at the glass reflections in the viewfinder and bottle and lens which camera had performed the best.  Also I have one of those color passports and could compare the color accuracy.

Best regards
Erik 


Erik,
You love to push the pixels into all these charts and tests, but that has nothing to do with what I did or the others.  They looked at bokeh, DOF, etc. 
Kind of like not being able to see the forest through the trees.  You can recognize the sound of a piano regardless of whether it is in tune or not. 



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Gel
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« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2012, 06:49:45 PM »
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A: Contax
B: 5D2
C: Leica
D: IQ180

A nice educational test.

Hah, all completely wrong. But interestingly, I got the 5D2 and the IQ180 the wrong way around.

I totally prefer the Leica DMR look out of all of them.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 06:58:33 PM by Gel » Logged

Chris Giles Photography
ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2012, 07:22:24 PM »
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Hi Chris,

Thanks for this small test!

I observed that rim on the Hologon lens shows some Moiré pattern. Is it coming from the original image or is it a result of downsampling? I see only images D and B.

Best regards
Erik
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FredBGG
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« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2012, 08:11:40 PM »
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Hi res here Erik

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73668.0;attach=72157

Looks nice and clean. Some color moire in the texture of the color checker case, but you need to look quite close.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2012, 08:28:41 PM »
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Hi Fred,

Thanks I missed the link!

Yes, I don't see the moiré on the lens mount, so it was a downsizing artifact.

Best regards
Erik



Hi res here Erik

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73668.0;attach=72157

Looks nice and clean. Some color moire in the texture of the color checker case, but you need to look quite close.
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FredBGG
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« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2013, 10:07:37 PM »
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A: Contax
B: 5D2
C: Leica
D: IQ180

A nice educational test.

Hah, all completely wrong. But interestingly, I got the 5D2 and the IQ180 the wrong way around.

I totally prefer the Leica DMR look out of all of them.

Yup it is interesting how close the 5D2 and the IQ180 are when resolution compared at the same size.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2013, 12:16:40 AM »
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Hi,

It would be interesting to see an unsharpened image from the Leica DMR. Obviously, different cameras need different amount of sharpening. My guess is that the DMR image may be better with no sharpening at all. Reason is mainly that the DMR lacks OLP filtering and has relatively large pixels.

Best regards
Erik
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chrismuc
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« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2013, 03:08:48 AM »
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... here it is, respectively here they are: 1200 pixel wide 100% crops unsharpened (this means ACR 25 - 1 pixel basis sharpening) of the four test images
so now sharpness is basically a matter of the AA-filter (or lack of), the lens sharpness and the focus point
a bit difficult to compare due to the very different magnifications
Christoph
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bcooter
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« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2013, 06:25:24 AM »
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The dmr from a distance looks so sharp and clean.

Question on the DMR.  Is focusing an issue on the cropped viewfinder easy, hard, in between?

I think it's a very cool device and love the R system, just couldn't get past the crop, though I never tried one outside of a store.

The Contax I find great and though the reviews were awful, how cool would it have been if they had fixed the problems, continued on.

Anyway back to images.  I know that with all the cameras I own I can devise a setting where one will out perform the other.  The 5d2 I think is the best Canon file and works well with HMI's. 

My Leica M-8 is stunning in hard daylight, amazing with profoto standard reflectors in studio which is not what the camera was probably designed for.



I find all of the cameras I own can be stunning or challanged more depending on lighting and setting than actual numbers.

Anyway I love your test and am equally jealous of your cameras, especially the Contax and the DMR.

I also find it interesting that you have three ccd cameras, one cmos.

I know if time/project/lighting permits I love the look of ccds


IMO

BC


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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2013, 12:07:39 PM »
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Hi,

Thanks for the images. On the first set of images I felt that Leica DMR image was to "gritty". I would presume that it needs much less sharpening than OLP-filtered images.

The first enclosed screen dumps is of the original "A.jpg" file, the new unsharpened file from the DMR and the Canon file downsized to DMR resolution using Bicubic with no sharpening.

The second screen dump is the original "A.jpg" file, and the file from DMR and the downsized Canon file, both sharpened to my taste.

The previous time I compared the files without knowledge of which was which. Now, I'm much aware of which is which, so I don't do any comparisons.

Best regards
Erik



... here it is, respectively here they are: 1200 pixel wide 100% crops unsharpened (this means ACR 25 - 1 pixel basis sharpening) of the four test images
so now sharpness is basically a matter of the AA-filter (or lack of), the lens sharpness and the focus point
a bit difficult to compare due to the very different magnifications
Christoph
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