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Author Topic: Mamiya DM33 (Leaf Aptus-II 7) Centerfold lines....?  (Read 2322 times)
pemihan
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« on: January 04, 2013, 08:00:48 AM »
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Hi all,

I just upgraded to a Mamiya DM33 (Leaf Aptus-II 7) back and am using it on my Cambo WRS with SK35XL and SK47XL lenses.

I did some testing yesterday and see very obvious lines through the image, both vertical and horizontal. It is especially visible when converting to B&W which I do all the time.

Here is what I'm seeing.. Cambo WRS, DM33, SK47XL. Just a tiny bit of shift.
The first image has had no LCC applied, the second has, using Leaf Capture and converting to B&W in Lightroom with Nik Silver Efex Pro.
Is this what to expect? Is everybody who do a lot of B&W on a tech cam seeing this?

Thanks
Peter



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Camdavidson
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 08:10:41 AM »
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I had a similar problem with my Leaf Aptus 75 (the predecessor to your back).

I use Capture One for my processing instead of Leaf Capture.  Yair Shahar is the guy to talk to about this or Doug Peterson.  I believe if you go to lossless compression this will go away. 

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pemihan
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2013, 08:59:55 AM »
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Thanks for your reply, appreciate it...
I will do some compressed shooting tomorrow and see what happens when processing in C1

Yair & Doug, what's your opinion?

Thanks
Peter


I had a similar problem with my Leaf Aptus 75 (the predecessor to your back).

I use Capture One for my processing instead of Leaf Capture.  Yair Shahar is the guy to talk to about this or Doug Peterson.  I believe if you go to lossless compression this will go away. 


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yaya
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 11:10:39 AM »
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Hi Peter it is best if you either contact support directly or ask your dealer to do it for you: http://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMain/ContactSupport.aspx

We'll need RAW files (preferably from the CF card) and more info about the LC version and your workflow

In general you should not see these lines in Leaf Capture

Thanks

Yair
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pemihan
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 11:33:11 AM »
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Thanks Yair,

I have already contacted support and the answer was that this is what I can expect when using a tech cam with a SK47XL lens...
He or she basically told me to get a Rodenstock lens instead....!!! That sounds absurd with a 33MP back, I mean people with 40 og 60 MP are using the SK47XL as well without this issue.

On the other hand he/she also said that a recalibration of the back possibly might help, but can't guarantee it...

Peter


Hi Peter it is best if you either contact support directly or ask your dealer to do it for you: http://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMain/ContactSupport.aspx

We'll need RAW files (preferably from the CF card) and more info about the LC version and your workflow

In general you should not see these lines in Leaf Capture

Thanks

Yair
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 12:22:01 PM by pemihan » Logged
Graham Welland
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2013, 12:46:11 AM »
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Thanks Yair,

I have already contacted support and the answer was that this is what I can expect when using a tech cam with a SK47XL lens...
He or she basically told me to get a Rodenstock lens instead....!!! That sounds absurd with a 33MP back, I mean people with 40 og 60 MP are using the SK47XL as well without this issue.

On the other hand he/she also said that a recalibration of the back possibly might help, but can't guarantee it...

Peter



Peter,

That's an unacceptable and ultimately I believe incorrect answer. (actually I think it's a BS answer ...)

I use that same lens and have used with my my Leaf Aptus 65, P40+, P25+ and IQ 160 and I haven't had anything like this level of centerfolding before. As you know, I started the thread on GetDPI regarding my IQ160 and I also mostly use tech cams with movements. The SK 47 argument completely falls apart in my opinion. I would definitely go back and request recalibration.
 
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Graham
pemihan
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2013, 07:43:54 AM »
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Thanks Graham,

I have contacted support again to say that I and others disagree with his/hers assessment and to ask for the support case to be moved to another level and the very short answer was to contact my dealer for service.

BTW I have tried to shoot compressed and apply LCC in Capture One 7.01 as well. The results are the same..
I use the latest version of Leaf Capture and the firmware of the back is up to date.

Peter
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Paul2660
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2013, 08:46:21 AM »
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Peter,

That's an unacceptable and ultimately I believe incorrect answer. (actually I think it's a BS answer ...)

I use that same lens and have used with my my Leaf Aptus 65, P40+, P25+ and IQ 160 and I haven't had anything like this level of centerfolding before. As you know, I started the thread on GetDPI regarding my IQ160 and I also mostly use tech cams with movements. The SK 47 argument completely falls apart in my opinion. I would definitely go back and request recalibration.
 

+1 on that.

I don't have a 47 but use the 43mm Schneider all the time.  When I had to send in my 160, to Phase I received a 180 loaner,  the 180 showed this effect with the 43mm Schneider, in vertical lines, much like Graham has shown on his post on getdpi.  This was in a blue sky not B & W and it was harsh enough that most of the frames were not really useable.  You can only use Content aware so much and when you zoom out many times you can still see the demarcation or fade problems.  This same lens works fine on my 160.  On the 180 these were all on center shots, not shifts.  The 28mm Rodenstock and 60mm Schneider had no problems, for some reason only the 43mm. 

With my 160, often times I see these lines on the camera's LCD mainly when looking at a LCC shot.  So far when the files are opened in Capture One the lines are blended out.   What surprised me was when I was shooting the files with the 180 and 43mm I did not see any problems and all of the corresponding LCC's did not show any lines (both on the camera LCD and processed out in Capture One), yet they were present in the final  file.  On the 160, I tend to see the lines on the camera's LCD with most of my lenses, including the Rodenstock 28mm. 

I have never really understood the process of the blending out the centerfold lines, and assumed at first it was done in the camera, however based on my experience, it seems like a combination of camera firmware and Capture One.  It's a very grey area that you don't read about much and not much has been written about it. 

To the tech support answer, for sure the Rodenstock, retro-focus design seems to work better on the larger sensors in that it helps to reduce the color shifting.  The 43mm on the 180 also had a much more harsh color shift, magenta and green which the LCC did correct.  It also really only allowed about 7-8mm of shift before the magenta color cast became too harsh.   When the 180's first started to ship there were some posts about this same problem, but with DF or AFDIII bodies and Mamiya glass.  The answer then seemed to be a "recalibration" that has been mentioned.  Personally if you are only seeing the problem with the 47mm, you may need to have the back and lens shipped off for recalibration. 

Hopefully Leaf/Phase can get it fixed. 

Paul Caldwell


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Paul Caldwell
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pemihan
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« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2013, 09:58:15 AM »
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Thanks Paul,

I'm also seeing this issue with my other lens, the SK35XL. The issue is present with both lenses, both shifted and centered.

The dealers tech support is looking at some files at the moment, I'm waiting to hear back from him.
He mentioned that a LCC shot would be used for recalibration if that is needed. I thought the back would have to go to Leaf in Israel..?

Peter
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yaya
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« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2013, 12:27:53 PM »
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Peter please email me the serial number of the back and the dealer's name and I'll make sure it is handled properly. I'm sorry for the delay as I'm on the other side of the world right now

Thanks

Yair
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pemihan
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« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2013, 12:52:55 PM »
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Yair, I have sent an email with the info.

Thanks
Peter


Peter please email me the serial number of the back and the dealer's name and I'll make sure it is handled properly. I'm sorry for the delay as I'm on the other side of the world right now

Thanks

Yair
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yaya
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2013, 07:59:35 PM »
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Yair, I have sent an email with the info.

Thanks
Peter

Thanks Peter, I've asked Support to look into it. In the meantime please try setting the back to Lossless Compression so that Leaf Capture can (and Capture One) remove the lines (even prior to LCC)

Thanks

Yair
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pemihan
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2013, 01:54:05 AM »
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Hi Yair,

I have already tried with Lossless Compression in both Leaf Capture and Capture One, to no avail.
The results are precisely the same..

I haven't tried shooting tethered though, but will do so when I'm back home tomorrow.

Thanks again
Peter


Thanks Peter, I've asked Support to look into it. In the meantime please try setting the back to Lossless Compression so that Leaf Capture can (and Capture One) remove the lines (even prior to LCC)

Thanks

Yair
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