MOAB Entrada Natural vs. Hahnemuhle Photo Rag

[tjv]

Hi all,

I've used MOAB Entrada bright white double sided paper before for portfolio printing and loved it. For exhibition and archival prints I'd rather use a paper without or with very little optical brighteners.

I'm wondering if anyone here has used or is using MOAB's Entrada 300gsm Natural (double sided) and if they have an opinion of it compared to Hahnemuhle's Photo Rag 308gsm. The Hahnemuhle has optical brighteners but it nearly as warm as the Entrada Natural plus I like how the Entrada flattens easily from rolls because of its double sided coating.

Any opinions or any alternatives to the above i should look into for a high end matte rag paper?

Thanks,

TJV

[John Caldwell]

Recently I went through a handful of two-sided fine art papers for the purpose of printing greeting cards on our Epson 4900. I made some greeting cards from the Entrada Natural (and Bright too) because of its two-sided ability. After running some tests on the Photo Rag Duo, I preferred the Entrada papers. Ultimately I went with the Epson Cold Press Natural, but the Entrada would have been a second choice. The Entra surface is quite nice; it feels good in hand, gamut is wide, and Dmax is decent. Again for two sided work, I couldn't get as interested in the Photo Rag - partly because of its 270 weight. By the way, I have  a custom ICC profile for the PR, but just used canned profiles for the Entrada and Epson papers.

I hope some of this scattered anecdote is of use.

John Caldwell

[tjv]

Thanks for the reply, John.
I have always really liked the standard, one sided Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308gsm but was very taken with the Entrada Bright White when I used it.
I'm not so fussed on the double sided coatings, except for the fact that they seem to flatten very well when used off a roll. The Hahnemuhle single sided takes a lot of care.
Between the standard Hahnemuhle 308gsm and the Entrada 300gsm natural, is the DMAX about the same do you think?
Thanks again,
TJV

[Josh-H]

Hi all,

I've used MOAB Entrada bright white double sided paper before for portfolio printing and loved it. For exhibition and archival prints I'd rather use a paper without or with very little optical brighteners.

I'm wondering if anyone here has used or is using MOAB's Entrada 300gsm Natural (double sided) and if they have an opinion of it compared to Hahnemuhle's Photo Rag 308gsm. The Hahnemuhle has optical brighteners but it nearly as warm as the Entrada Natural plus I like how the Entrada flattens easily from rolls because of its double sided coating.

Any opinions or any alternatives to the above i should look into for a high end matte rag paper?

Thanks,

TJV

TJV,

I just chuckled reading your post as my IPF6350 next to me just finished a 24" print on Moab Entrada Rag Natural. Entrada Rag Natural is one of my two favourite papers (the other being Somerset Museum Rag). I've probably made more prints on Entrada Rag Natural than any other paper.

I ditched Hahnemuhle years ago for being over priced and having poor quality control. I was fed up with getting boxes of their paper that had issues. Plus I couldn't stand the paper curl after printing.

To be fair the Hahnemuhle paper is a good paper and I do like it. But I do prefer the Entrada Rag for the way it sits flat after the print. It also measures slightly better for D-Max.

I need to disclose I am one of Moab's Masters so take my opinion in that context. But I will add that I was recommending and printing on Entrada Rag long before I was asked to join their Masters program.

If you want another paper recommendation that is also excellent, double sided and not a Moab product then have a look at Museo Portfolio Rag. Another truly excellent paper. Very crisp, sits flat, and wonderful prints.

[John Caldwell]

Between the standard Hahnemuhle 308gsm and the Entrada 300gsm natural, is the DMAX about the same do you think?

Speaking informally without measurements, I would say not the same. The blacks were deeper on the Entrada from my Epson 4900, but not as deep as on the Epson Cold Press.

[tjv]

Thanks, guys!

Josh, when going through a MOAB swatch book the paper I liked the most was Somerset Museum Rag but for some reason I can't find it on Adorama's website in 24" rolls – the MOAB product number doesn't bring it up, either. (I need to order through Adorama as they are also able to ship inks to my part of the world when other companies can not). I liked the bright white Entrada so much however that I thought I'd give the Natural a try. The fact that it curls less because it's coated on both sides is an extra plus.

Regarding Hahnemuhle, I haven't experienced the quality control issues that you have but I'm certainly of the opinion that it's a little expensive compared to some of the competition.

I've had very mixed experienced with the Harman by Hahn MCS paper. Rolls have been perfect but cut sheets are a nightmare to use as the curl is insane out of the box. I'd end up wasting half a pack due to head strikes, etc.

As an aside, I first used MOAB products because at the time they were the only manufacturer making a quality double sided paper around 200gsm suitable for making high end artist books. Specifically, this was their Kayenta line of paper. They no longer make it but it's good they now make the Entrada rag in a lighter double sided weight to compensate.

Thanks again,
TJV

[hugowolf]

I would also look at Canson Rag Photographique. Curling was one of the reasons why I switched from Hahnemühle Photo Rag 308 to Canson Rag 310. I also prefer the slightly smoother surface of the Canson paper, and the lack of OBAs.

I haven’t used the 220 g/m² two sided version.

Brian A

[aaronchan]

I personally like to use Canson BFK way more than Hahnemuhle Photo Rag
I've a client who needs to print B&W image on a 44"x44" rag paper,
then he will need to write thousands of words on top of it which usually takes him around 20-25 days to finish it.
We have done it on HFA Photo Rag Ultra Smooth and Photo Rag 308,
both of them has yellow spot after around 15days of his hand writing work,
even with the protective spray.
I guess is because his arm was laying on top of the paper and makes it turn yellow.
So at the end, we tried BFK and this paper never turns out yellow in the whole entire post process of his hand writing.
And this paper is 100% no OBA!

aaron

[hugowolf]

I personally like to use Canson BFK way more than Hahnemuhle Photo Rag
I've a client who needs to print B&W image on a 44"x44" rag paper,
then he will need to write thousands of words on top of it which usually takes him around 20-25 days to finish it.
We have done it on HFA Photo Rag Ultra Smooth and Photo Rag 308,
both of them has yellow spot after around 15days of his hand writing work,
even with the protective spray.
I guess is because his arm was laying on top of the paper and makes it turn yellow.

You might want to suggest he use a sheet of drafting film, or even bond paper, under his writing arm.

So at the end, we tried BFK and this paper never turns out yellow in the whole entire post process of his hand writing.
And this paper is 100% no OBA!

I like BFK Rives too, but it isn't smooth (it has a soft 'velvet' texture) and I am pretty sure it isn't available C2S.

Brian A