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Author Topic: Sigma DP3 Merrill Experiences  (Read 104654 times)
Hulyss
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« Reply #160 on: March 29, 2013, 05:30:11 PM »
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See this as a scientific appendix to my DP3m report you can find HERE and the DP2m report started by Michael HERE.

The fine art photographer Vieri Bottazzini did a pretty accurate test between the three DP and endorse, by a certain measure and in a more scientific way, what my eyes seen when I did the report. Enjoy the read :

THE SIGMA DP MERRILS AND THEIR COLORS: THE TRUTH REVEALED!
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kuau
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« Reply #161 on: April 01, 2013, 04:10:57 PM »
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Me to, more of a problem for me was lack of good lenses. Sigma has horrible QC problems. Maybe with there new art line and a rumored SD1 with LV I will for sure give it another spin.

I used it. But the lack of LV is a very big problem ...
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #162 on: April 02, 2013, 01:46:50 AM »
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The fine art photographer Vieri Bottazzini did a pretty accurate test

accurate ? his illumination was very uneven... both between shots and within a shot... total BS.
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madshutter
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« Reply #163 on: April 02, 2013, 11:35:51 AM »
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accurate ? his illumination was very uneven... both between shots and within a shot... total BS.

Hello,

No, not total BS, on the contrary. Besides looking at the images, reading the text would have told you that the purpose of the test was to see if there were differences between the colours of the DP1M, DP2M and DP3M, not determining absolute colour response of any of the three cameras. Therefore, to check this particular aspect out, I HAD to use the SAME manual exposure with every camera, which resulted in DIFFERENT luminance values because of the different response to light of each camera. As well, for such a test I did NOT need the illumination to be even on the card, but it to be THE SAME for each camera, which I made sure of by not changing the flash' position between shots.

I hope this clarified the issue, best

Vieri
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NancyP
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« Reply #164 on: April 02, 2013, 11:54:13 AM »
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The test looked accurate enough to me. Thank you, Vieri. Interesting information. DP2M user here.
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Hulyss
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« Reply #165 on: April 02, 2013, 01:04:04 PM »
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C'mon guys Smiley Please no polemic here. Vieri test is cool and we should thanks him for that. It take time and efforts to do that. So please lets post photos :

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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #166 on: April 02, 2013, 02:02:56 PM »
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Hello,

No, not total BS, on the contrary. Besides looking at the images, reading the text would have told you that the purpose of the test was to see if there were differences between the colours of the DP1M, DP2M and DP3M, not determining absolute colour response of any of the three cameras.

Therefore, to check this particular aspect out, I HAD to use the SAME manual exposure with every camera, which resulted in DIFFERENT luminance values because of the different response to light of each camera.



because you did not use the same illumination to start with... and then you really do not know if SPP is using (or not) different hidden expocorrections/tone curves/etc for different camera models (like ACR/LR do)... what are you testing really ?



but it to be THE SAME for each camera


w/ flash ? not w/ some power/voltage stabilized source like halogen after sufficient time of being powered up... really ?

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foveonconvert
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« Reply #167 on: April 03, 2013, 03:19:53 AM »
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SPP using hidden expocorrection/tone curves?  If so, then no test is reliable according to you.  The guy put his time and effort into a free test for others to see.  Gave me some knowledge, instead of the BS you're typing.
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #168 on: April 03, 2013, 09:04:49 AM »
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SPP using hidden expocorrection/tone curves?

may be yes, may be no - do you know for sure that it does not apply hidden corrections of any kind for different SD/DP cameras ? ACR/LR do...SPP might as well

  If so, then no test is reliable according to you. 

that's a strange conclusion... if the purpose of his tests was to show that different cameras, with different lenses (different T-stops), w/o a guarantee of the same processing by a proprietary raw converter, under not stable and uneven illumination will most probably give you different results in your workflow then yes... it is kind of obvious...






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madshutter
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« Reply #169 on: April 03, 2013, 10:01:35 AM »
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that's a strange conclusion... if the purpose of his tests was to show that different cameras, with different lenses (different T-stops), w/o a guarantee of the same processing by a proprietary raw converter, under not stable and uneven illumination will most probably give you different results in your workflow then yes... it is kind of obvious...


- Same processing, same proprietary RAW converter software (SPP), same general settings, same WB / colour wheel settings, etc both in the converter and in all cameras;
- Same light, stable and even, same flash position, same power (in manual);
- Same cameras in all respects except for the lenses (according to the manufacturer);
- Same exposure, same f stop, same shutter speed;
- Same relative magnification of test charts;

Pretty controlled. Pretty reliable conditions in order to determine whether the 3 Merrill cameras do or do not process colours differently, which was the purpose of the test. Testing differences in colour response between cameras, following contrasting claims on the net from people saying the DP3M processed colours differently than the DP1M/DP2M versus others saying that the colour response was identical between all the DP Merrill. No absolute colour response test here.

You don't like the test methodology and the test results? Fair enough, believe me I don't care much either way; however, if you feel strongly about it, you are welcome to design a better test and prove my results wrong. Please provide us with a link to such test once done. Until then, I'll not go into further baseless polemics with you.

Best,

Vieri
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Hulyss
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« Reply #170 on: April 03, 2013, 04:09:33 PM »
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Dear Vladimirovich,

I know that in your country it is cold actually, and that your president is somewhat authoritarian but it is not an excuse to come here with such blabla. Do not transform this nice place in Dpreview... it is not Dpreview. As Vieri said, if you can do better your are welcome with your test and skills. Otherwise stop. If it disturb you then, walk away.

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Tiger1
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« Reply #171 on: April 03, 2013, 10:44:25 PM »
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I second that! Angry
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Quentin
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« Reply #172 on: April 04, 2013, 12:15:19 AM »
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Useful test, well conducted.   Anyone who does not agree is talking total BS  Grin
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Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, photographer entrepreneur and senior partner of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2013
Vladimirovich
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« Reply #173 on: April 04, 2013, 10:35:17 AM »
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Dear Vladimirovich,

I know that in your country it is cold actually, and that your president is somewhat authoritarian but it is not an excuse to come here with such blabla. Do not transform this nice place in Dpreview... it is not Dpreview. As Vieri said, if you can do better your are welcome with your test and skills. Otherwise stop. If it disturb you then, walk away.



Dear Hulyss, which country ? I happen to have both blue and red passports...  are you trying to insult me, kid ?
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #174 on: April 04, 2013, 10:45:00 AM »
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- Same processing, same proprietary RAW converter software (SPP), same general settings, same WB / colour wheel settings, etc both in the converter and in all cameras;

as noted there is no guarantee that everything being the same actually applies the same conversion behind the scenes when you are dealing w/ raw files from 2 (or 3) different cameras...


- Same light, stable and even, same flash position, same power (in manual);

light is not even and you can see it... also flash is not used to profile cameras for a reason - that is it is not stable



- Same cameras in all respects except for the lenses (according to the manufacturer);

different cameras, different firmware, different lenses, different distance to the target and w/ your light that matters too


Pretty controlled.

absolutely not...

Pretty reliable conditions in order to determine whether the 3 Merrill cameras do or do not process colours differently, which was the purpose of the test.

not "3 cameras", but 3 different cameras + 3 different firmwares + 3 different lenses + your poor illumination + SPP raw converter (which may or may not apply different processing to different camera models), etc...


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Chris Sanderson
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« Reply #175 on: April 04, 2013, 10:45:34 AM »
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Note to Vladimirovich and Hulyss

Persist in this and you will both be banned from posting. Stick to the Topic or be gone.
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Christopher Sanderson
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Hulyss
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« Reply #176 on: April 04, 2013, 10:56:53 AM »
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Note to Vladimirovich and Hulyss

Persist in this and you will both be banned from posting. Stick to the Topic or be gone.

Who the hell stand here to try to keep this thread clear Dear Chriss ??

Ban me a kill my post/threads, even my "report" if I'm a "problem".

I assume.
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Rand47
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« Reply #177 on: April 04, 2013, 11:25:31 AM »
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Who the hell stand here to try to keep this thread clear Dear Chriss ??

Ban me a kill my post/threads, even my "report" if I'm a "problem".

I assume.


Hulyss,

Chris is the Administrator.  He can make you disappear in an instant, which would not be good for you, or for us.  Take a chill pill, regroup, and relax.  The folk who own and run this place are nice reasonable people.  It behooves us to take their cues on when to chill out.  That's what keeps LULA a great place IMO.

By the way, my DP3 M arrives tomorrow - direct from Sigma.  I'm anxious to compare files from my DP2, and to add the longer focal length to my kit. 

Rand
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 11:28:23 AM by Rand47 » Logged
mezzoduomo
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« Reply #178 on: April 05, 2013, 08:11:57 PM »
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Well, this thread has certainly gone quiet after the recent 'incident'.................(sound of crickets chirping in the dark).  Wink
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urbanpicasso
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« Reply #179 on: April 06, 2013, 07:04:32 AM »
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link
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