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Author Topic: Canon 1Ds Mkiii - DPP Digital Photo Professional vs. LR and ACR for color.  (Read 9308 times)
Dinarius
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« on: January 08, 2013, 10:51:34 AM »
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I'm starting a new thread because I can't find anything appropriate.

Has anyone doing colour critical work with a Canon 1Ds Mkiii done any comparisons with the latest version of DPP and either ACR or LR?

A quick Google shows that this camera is regarded as having a red (saturated) bias.

Most of my work will include a Gretag Macbeth Color Checker and a basICColor Grey card in some of the shots.

A side by side comparison of the same file opened in DPP and ACR (and having had the White Balance Tool applied to the grey card in both files) shows an alarming difference, to put it mildly.

On my monitor, the DPP file is as clean as can be. The ACR has a strong warm/reddish cast. (Also, after correction, the red value of blue patch on the Gretag CC typically reads zero.)

I've been using ACR for most of my work and have been aware of the problem and correcting accordingly. I'm just too used to all the extras that ACR has.

But, one would think that Adobe could match the quality of the DPP file at least?

Is anyone using DPP in their workflow?

D.
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Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 02:19:18 PM »
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Quote
A quick Google shows that this camera is regarded as having a red (saturated) bias.

All digital cameras including my Pentax have a red bias to some extent depending on the strength, quality of the sensor IR filter on the red end of the light spectrum and UV filter on the blue end along with whatever bias the lens coatings offer among various models.

My Pentax K100D has a red bias which usually renders shots of red flowers lit by direct sunlight into flat color red blobs whether I shoot jpeg or Raw.

Have you tried editing the custom DNG profile recipe of your Canon 1D in Adobe DNG Profile Editor? That's the only solution I've found outside of editing the HSL panel in ACR on a shot by shot basis.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 03:51:15 PM »
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Hi,

Which color space are you using?

My latest shot of a CC shows 20,31,70  on the blue field in LR 4.3 or 35, 15, -61 in Lab coordinates in CS5. Correct value is 28, 18, -53 (in Lab) according to http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?ColorCheckerCalculator.html


Best regards
Erik

I'm starting a new thread because I can't find anything appropriate.

A side by side comparison of the same file opened in DPP and ACR (and having had the White Balance Tool applied to the grey card in both files) shows an alarming difference, to put it mildly.

On my monitor, the DPP file is as clean as can be. The ACR has a strong warm/reddish cast. (Also, after correction, the red value of blue patch on the Gretag CC typically reads zero.)

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Dinarius
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 02:59:36 AM »
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Thanks for the replies.

I use ARGB colour space.

Yes, I'm aware of the red bias. My main issue is simply that Adobe/ACR can't simply copy Canon Digital Photo Professional when setting up the Color Balance Tool 1Ds Mkiii profile in ACR.

The more I compare the two side by side, the more alarming I find the difference.

For the record, this is the grey card I use, the best I've come across (as is their monitor profiling software)> http://www.basiccolor.de/basiccolor-gray-card/

D.
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SecondFocus
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2013, 03:17:23 PM »
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While I do not do "color Critical" work, I have long since decided that DPP renders a much superior image as compared to the Adobe products on Canon files. However I have been using the latest version (v7) of Capture One and believe that skin tones and color is better than in DPP and prior versions of Capture One.

With that said I just tried Phocus and pretty impressed with the results. But it certainly does not have the versatility of Capture One.

But for a long time, for my Canon files, I exclusively used DPP.
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Ian L. Sitren
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Dinarius
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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2013, 04:00:12 AM »
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The problem I have with DPP is its lack of features compared with just about any other raw processor. The most useful thing I find about it is that it gives me something to compare with when I have an image open in ACR or LR - particularly so when it comes to the critical issue of white balance.

I shoot directly to DPP on a laptop when on location. This gives me something to aim at when the files are transferred to the desktop for processing.

I always use Camera Neutral in ACR or LR as my starting point now. A direct comparison with DPP shows that blues are slightly less saturated in ACR/LR. Otherwise, it's a very good match.

As to white balance, more often than not, As Shot and Auto get me a lot closer to what I was seeing in DPP on my (calibrated) laptop than a Custom grey card white balance does. I find Custom is usually far too warm.

D.

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DeanChriss
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2013, 11:57:38 AM »
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The problem I have with DPP is its lack of features compared with just about any other raw processor. The most useful thing I find about it is that it gives me something to compare with when I have an image open in ACR or LR - particularly so when it comes to the critical issue of white balance.
...

That issue has been a constant source of irritation. DPP produces a far more natural color rendition than anything else, even for work that's not color critical, but it has a very limited set of features. It can take loads of time fussing in ACR to get close to the same look. In ACR I often use Camera Faithful or Neutral, but that's just a starting point. as far as I know, Breeze Browser has a much better user interface and uses the same Canon software conversion routines as DPP. I use that in the field but I use ACR for the "real" processing later on. Using ACR I often find it hard to equal the color produced in a couple minutes late at night minutes in a motel room using DPP or Breeze Browser.
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Dinarius
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2013, 04:32:33 AM »
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Lightroom's white balance tool with its inbuilt magnifier is far superior to that of ACR, in my opinion.

Also, am I correct in thinking that LR samples a 25 pixel average (as one sees in the magnifier) whereas ACR is single pixel?

Coupled with choosing Camera Neutral, you can get a lot closer to what you're seeing in DPP.

D.
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elied
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2013, 06:43:04 PM »
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In LR 1,2 and 3 it was a 25 pixel sample. In LR 4 it can be expanded up to 289 pixels.
I don't know about ACR, but I would think it is very unlikely that it is a single pixel. The chance of error would be very great.
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Iliah
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2013, 09:23:08 PM »
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DPP is accurate in colour. It has all the features a raw converter can have; what it lacks has nothing to do with raw conversion but is Photoshop field. ACR/LR do poor with colour for this camera, but you can make it acceptable by editing red primary directly.
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Vladimirovich
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2013, 11:58:56 AM »
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Lightroom's white balance tool with its inbuilt magnifier is far superior to that of ACR, in my opinion.

it is a shame that Adobe can't keep features more in sync (and that is for more than 1 major release)

Also, am I correct in thinking that LR samples a 25 pixel average (as one sees in the magnifier) whereas ACR is single pixel?

as far as I remember ACR takes into account a variable sized area based on the current magnification of preview (like when you view @ 25% WB tool will use more pixel vs when you view @ 50%) - but the size is not user controllable (what a shame !).
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