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Author Topic: Seeking advices on digiback by a new digiback beginner .  (Read 1844 times)
parkn123
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« on: January 11, 2013, 06:15:38 AM »
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Hi seniors,
 I am planning try to use digiback on medium format, now thinking about the digiback require rotation or not. I.e. Credo or Aptus II R .

 Any digiback users can give me some of your practical experience , Rotation back is better or not ?

 Many Thanks .

 Wilbur
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 06:43:05 AM by parkn123 » Logged
Pics2
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2013, 07:27:40 AM »
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It is a good additional feature, but you can't base your decision just on that. There are many more important things you have to look in a digital back.
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parkn123
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2013, 07:43:01 AM »
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It is a good additional feature, but you can't base your decision just on that. There are many more important things you have to look in a digital back.

Yes, you are correct , Credo is my goal but rotation can smoother operation , right? I'm not sure since I have no experience on it, just imagination.
Also, newer product normally better ( always true for electronic product) . Is it true for digiback easy catch dust when using outdoors ? Especially, no rotation function ??
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2013, 09:46:55 AM »
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Of course, the newer the better, if money is not an issue. Which is hard to believe. If you have limited budget you have to chose wisely. For example Credo 60 uses the same sensor like P65+. If you don't need any of new Credo features, P65+ is good choice. Etc, etc.
I use my back with one lens and one camera body in a studio, rarely exposed to dust, so I can't really  tell you about the problem.
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 09:50:18 AM »
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Whether the sensor requires rotation will depend on what camera platform you choose.  6x6 cameras love rotation since they were designed to be held one way and probably have a WLF or prism.  The folks with 645 cameras probably don't care as much since they can turn the camera when they need too and still use it.

I know you had asked about Rollei stuff earlier so I can tell you that on the AFi-ii backs the internally rotating sensor is wonderful. Can't imagine how I did it before. I don't have to take my eye off the camera or change hand positions.  I just turn the wheel with my thumb and keep shooting.
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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2013, 10:53:26 AM »
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Hi seniors, I am planning try to use digiback on medium format, now thinking about the digiback require rotation or not. I.e. Credo or Aptus II R .

Any digiback users can give me some of your practical experience , Rotation back is better or not ?

Wilbur, where are you located? The best option to get a specific demonstration of both options from a value added dealer (a selfish suggestion, see my signature for my bias). We have a Remote Demo Center with audio/video/raw-file/screen sharing which we use to do demonstrations to those who can't make it to one of our events, or to our NY or TX office or via an evaluation rental.

Internal rotation is a nice feature, but it only one feature to consider among many advantages/disadvantages of both back lines. The extent to which you should prioritize that feature among the other pros/cons, IMO, depends on how often you switch from vertical to horizontal.

Also FYI as there seems to be some confusion, internal rotation is ONLY available on the Hassy V and AFI/Hy6 mount Aptus II. The 645 mount Aptus II and all Credos do not have internal rotation.
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parkn123
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2013, 06:55:55 PM »
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Of course, the newer the better, if money is not an issue. Which is hard to believe. If you have limited budget you have to chose wisely. For example Credo 60 uses the same sensor like P65+. If you don't need any of new Credo features, P65+ is good choice. Etc, etc.
I use my back with one lens and one camera body in a studio, rarely exposed to dust, so I can't really  tell you about the problem.

Thank you very much for your advice, I'll consider your proposal.
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parkn123
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2013, 07:08:14 PM »
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Whether the sensor requires rotation will depend on what camera platform you choose.  6x6 cameras love rotation since they were designed to be held one way and probably have a WLF or prism.  The folks with 645 cameras probably don't care as much since they can turn the camera when they need too and still use it.

I know you had asked about Rollei stuff earlier so I can tell you that on the AFi-ii backs the internally rotating sensor is wonderful. Can't imagine how I did it before. I don't have to take my eye off the camera or change hand positions.  I just turn the wheel with my thumb and keep shooting.


Yes, I am using 6008i & a series of PQ lenses, so my only selection is Hy6 mod2 , my most photographing location is outdoor, so a rotation back will less dust fall on the CCD(is that true ??) . But Credo(60) series owns most update features.

For image quality, what is the difference between Credo & Afi II ? Can you share some of your experience ? Thanks in advance.

Wilbur
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parkn123
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« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2013, 07:15:55 PM »
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Wilbur, where are you located? The best option to get a specific demonstration of both options from a value added dealer (a selfish suggestion, see my signature for my bias). We have a Remote Demo Center with audio/video/raw-file/screen sharing which we use to do demonstrations to those who can't make it to one of our events, or to our NY or TX office or via an evaluation rental.

Internal rotation is a nice feature, but it only one feature to consider among many advantages/disadvantages of both back lines. The extent to which you should prioritize that feature among the other pros/cons, IMO, depends on how often you switch from vertical to horizontal.

Also FYI as there seems to be some confusion, internal rotation is ONLY available on the Hassy V and AFI/Hy6 mount Aptus II. The 645 mount Aptus II and all Credos do not have internal rotation.

I am in Hong Kong, as mention earlier, I taking photos outdoors mainly, but there are no square format digiback now, switching the back format may be annoying , as I think that the image quality of Aptus II & Credo are similar then, rotation back makes more considerable . Also, as heard from someones , the usable ISO for digiback only 100/200 , the high ISO in digiback not so good as DSLR , isn't it?

My camera will be Hy6 mod2.

Wilbur
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Anders_HK
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2013, 08:52:34 PM »
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I am in Hong Kong, as mention earlier, I taking photos outdoors mainly, but there are no square format digiback now, switching the back format may be annoying , as I think that the image quality of Aptus II & Credo are similar then, rotation back makes more considerable . Also, as heard from someones , the usable ISO for digiback only 100/200 , the high ISO in digiback not so good as DSLR , isn't it?

My camera will be Hy6 mod2.

Wilbur

Hi Wilbur,

I use Hy6 with AFi-II 12 back. It is a superb combination; camera through rotating sensor. The advantages of the AFi-II back over Credo to me are lower price, rotating sensor, larger display, tilt screen - in that order. I would not state that Credo is better because newer. Why? Leaf is solid and durable. For dust on sensor I do not worry, it is simple to clean on a digital back. Using a Credo on Hy6 I believe you would worry more than an AFi-II, simply because you would take the back off and on between landscape and portrait orientation, which really is not a good option.  I would worry about accidental damage to the back when doing so in the field. Assuming you do not go with a 90 degree finder, in which case you can rotate the camera. I stick to my WLF, because it makes small and compact and I really enjoy the view on the focus screen that way --- it is LARGE & BRIGHT. The 45 degree finder is near as big and bright, the 90 degree less so, and add weight.

I am normally Hong Kong based. Take a look at the Hy6 with AFi-II at Livecoal in TST, the agent for Rolleiflex in HK, or maybe 9days or simply contact Gavin Hui at Founder Globaltech. He is THE seller of Leaf in HK and on top of that a really nice and superbly helpful guy. I have purchased two Leaf backs from Gavin, simply because of his support and willing to help and give reasonable price. Following is off Leaf's website:

FOUNDER GLOBALTECH LIMITED
Rm 1010-11, 10/F, Eight Commercial Tower,
8 Sun Yip Street, Siu Sai Wan,
Hong Kong
Phone: 852 2896 0999
Mobile: 852 9309 1173
Fax: 852 2898 1628
Email: gavin.hui@foundergt.com.hk
Website: http://www.founder.com.hk

Gavin is the one who introduced me to Hy6 and that Livecoal was bringing it to HK. I am happy he did. His service? He delieved my AFi-II to me in a coffee shop in TST and we made transfer of money against camera there. Heck, on a visit to HK he even met me on one of MTR platforms in HK to sell me a tethering cable!!!

If you would like more info or Gavins, please message me. I suggest you ring Gavin on his mobile above.

Oh, do order the Hy6 with to take the Leaf battery in handle. It makes for simple. Plus, suggest you make sure to have the Xenotar 80/2.8 AFD PQS, it is the best lens I have ever owned and near glued to my camera. Sharp, wonderful rendering and character.

Happy to help!

Best regards,
Anders
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 08:59:02 PM by Anders_HK » Logged
parkn123
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2013, 09:14:07 PM »
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Hi Wilbur,

I use Hy6 with AFi-II 12 back. It is a superb combination; camera through rotating sensor. The advantages of the AFi-II back over Credo to me are lower price, rotating sensor, larger display, tilt screen - in that order. I would not state that Credo is better because newer. Why? Leaf is solid and durable. For dust on sensor I do not worry, it is simple to clean on a digital back. Using a Credo on Hy6 I believe you would worry more than an AFi-II, simply because you would take the back off and on between landscape and portrait orientation, which really is not a good option.  I would worry about accidental damage to the back when doing so in the field. Assuming you do not go with a 90 degree finder, in which case you can rotate the camera. I stick to my WLF, because it makes small and compact and I really enjoy the view on the focus screen that way --- it is LARGE & BRIGHT. The 45 degree finder is near as big and bright, the 90 degree less so, and add weight.

I am normally Hong Kong based. Take a look at the Hy6 with AFi-II at Livecoal in TST, the agent for Rolleiflex in HK, or maybe 9days or simply contact Gavin Hui at Founder Globaltech. He is THE seller of Leaf in HK and on top of that a really nice and superbly helpful guy. I have purchased two Leaf backs from Gavin, simply because of his support and willing to help and give reasonable price. Following is off Leaf's website:

FOUNDER GLOBALTECH LIMITED
Rm 1010-11, 10/F, Eight Commercial Tower,
8 Sun Yip Street, Siu Sai Wan,
Hong Kong
Phone: 852 2896 0999
Mobile: 852 9309 1173
Fax: 852 2898 1628
Email: gavin.hui@foundergt.com.hk
Website: http://www.founder.com.hk

Gavin is the one who introduced me to Hy6 and that Livecoal was bringing it to HK. I am happy he did. His service? He delieved my AFi-II to me in a coffee shop in TST and we made transfer of money against camera there. Heck, on a visit to HK he even met me on one of MTR platforms in HK to sell me a tethering cable!!!

If you would like more info or Gavins, please message me. I suggest you ring Gavin on his mobile above.

Oh, do order the Hy6 with to take the Leaf battery in handle. It makes for simple. Plus, suggest you make sure to have the Xenotar 80/2.8 AFD PQS, it is the best lens I have ever owned and near glued to my camera. Sharp, wonderful rendering and character.

Happy to help!

Best regards,
Anders

Hi Anders,

Happy to hear using exactly the same gears which I am going to buy & having right info , actually, I also prefer Aptus II 10R over Credo 60 for the easily operation(I suppose their images quality are the same). I am having confidence now as some persons with my same considerations . But livecoal still an agency in HK? , their website seems shutdown & no one reply the phone. As I know, HK's Rolleiflex agent is same as China mainland , right? Where can I get most proper way to purchase Hy6 mod2 & Aptus in HK ?
May I have your advice ?

Thanks,

Wilbur.
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Anders_HK
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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 11:12:08 PM »
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Hi Anders,

Happy to hear using exactly the same gears which I am going to buy & having right info , actually, I also prefer Aptus II 10R over Credo 60 for the easily operation(I suppose their images quality are the same). I am having confidence now as some persons with my same considerations . But livecoal still an agency in HK? , their website seems shutdown & no one reply the phone. As I know, HK's Rolleiflex agent is same as China mainland , right? Where can I get most proper way to purchase Hy6 mod2 & Aptus in HK ?
May I have your advice ?

Thanks,

Wilbur.

Hi Wilbur,

Not sure what is going on with Livecoal website. I am in Shanghai at current and thought it was due China internet blocking. As I know Livecoal is agent for Rolleiflex in HK, Sing and Mainland. You better call Gavin, he will know.

It is funny, I was considering upgrading my Aptus 65 to precisely Aptus-II 10 on a Hassy V. Gavin showed me Hy6 and... there was not that steep difference between AFi-II 10 & 12 when buying new. These backs are difficult to find used, and if used you should buy from Gavin because he knows prior customer and what back has been up to. He will also give support, but... a new one may not be that different in pricing! Regarding AFi-10 vs 12... my consideration was in what number of years I would keep it, and of course longer for the 80MP. Not only that, image quality (apart from more pixels) was very incremental going from the 28MP to the 56MP AFi-II 10, but is (pixels aside) a much more significant step to the AFi-II 12. I also compared files from P65+ and IQ180. The image quality of the 60MP sensor seem to be somewhere between the 56MP and 80MP. Compared to my prior 28MP Aptus, with the 80MP I find colors more correct and more pleasing at same time, there are more colors, finer gradation of hues, a broader DR and that enables a pleasing transition into highlights. The more pixels help in this. More pixels also enable cropping and still high image quality. The 80MP is the best digital photo product I have used and I know of nothing to touch its image quality (yet). Also along with Capture One Pro. That software functions just like my brain, photographic.

You should ring Gavin, he knows where Hy6 is available. It is his mobile listed by Leaf and he also answer on weekends  Grin. Founder also have their own Leaf AFi camera in their studio which is the Leaf version of Hy6. You should of course buy the Rolleiflex because it is further developed, and I do not believe they want to sell their only one Smiley. Of course... I bet you that Gavin will be able to give you best price in HK on Leaf, and perhaps he can help you with price on Hy6 from a dealer. Please tell him hi from Anders. That will bring me no earning, except to let him know he is a very good gent!

Best regards,
Anders
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parkn123
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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2013, 12:49:02 AM »
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Hi Anders,

Okay, I call Gavin next week even he answer calls on weekend. Many thanks.

Wilbur
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parkn123
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2013, 01:36:34 AM »
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Hi seniors,

  I also found a new term --  lens cast correction LCC in the digiback world with wide angles , as I searched in the forum, LCC always happened on some type of wide angle lenses especially whom are using Alpa & extra wide angle lenses . But I have not found any tropics about LCC on Rollei lenses & Hy6 , does it means no LCC appeared on Hy6 & their lenses (both tele & wide) ?  Huh Huh Huh

My lenses are 40mm F3.5 SA , 50mm F4 Distagon , 80mm F2.8 planar , 120mm F4 macro planar , 150mm F4 sonnar , 250mm F5.6 & 300mm F4 ATX , will they happen LCC on Aptus II 10R/12R ?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 01:40:47 AM by parkn123 » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2013, 01:54:05 AM »
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Hello,

I have been using a Leaf Aptus 75 now for over 7 years and it have worked for me without a fault. The files have a full body to them which gives me the ability to manipulate them without losing quality in Photoshop.

Cheers

Simon
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2013, 01:58:57 AM »
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Hi Willbur,

There is no need for LCC for Rolleiflex lenses. They are all retrofocus lenses with the incoming angle of light to sensor suffice perpendicular to sensor. The issue of LCC is for wide angle lenses that are not of retrofocus design and have a larger angle off from the perpendicular to sensor. Thus for most large format type lenses on a tech camera such as Alpa, Cambo, where the flange to focus distance is about same as focal length of lens.

Following explains http://www.mamiyaleaf.com/files/support/Cast_Effects_in_Wide_Angle_Photography.pdf

Again, you do not need to consider this at all with your Rolleiflex Hy6/6008 lenses.

Best regards,
Anders
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parkn123
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2013, 02:18:03 AM »
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Oh, this is a great great news for me, since Distagon are retrofocus lenses design , it is right .  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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