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Author Topic: Thinking about getting this Phase One IQ140  (Read 1835 times)
figure1a
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« on: January 11, 2013, 10:02:36 AM »
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The below IQ140 seems like a good deal. From what I can see I would save at least $6000 off the retail price (maybe more if they will take a lower offer) and it has the Value Added Warranty. Does anyone recommend the IQ140 or know of any better deals?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Phase-One-IQ140-IQ140-Digital-Back-40-Megapixels-MP-40MP-PhaseOne-/390524432349
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Pics2
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2013, 10:28:22 AM »
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There was a good deal for IQ140 from this seller
http://myworld.ebay.com/steve5544/&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2754
Maybe you could check with him if it was still available.
One thing about Value added warranty - If you've purchased from an end user then you've forgone the support that a Value Added Dealer provides. You still have Warranty for repair and part replacement from Phase One, but not Dealer Support.
Is that Ebay seller Phase One dealer?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 10:30:20 AM by Pics2 » Logged
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2013, 10:47:28 AM »
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Is that Ebay seller Phase One dealer?

I suspect not, as the firmware is out of date. It's pretty rare (though not impossible) to find a modern/current-generation back on eBay being sold by a dealer.

Are you sure this is the right model for your needs? Have you compared to e.g. Credo 40, P65+ Are you sure the platform (H) is right for you? Have you had the chance to evaluate in person? Have you contacted to see what special offers a value added dealer can provide you right now or are you comparing the eBay price only to the list price of the back? Are you sure eBay is where you want to make such a large investment? Will you have follow on questions - Phase One primary support channel is via their dealers, so you'll be okay without someone specific to answer your question any time of day?

A great deal (if it is) on the wrong product is still a poor outcome. I suggest you look for high-reputation dealers (a selfish suggestion of course, but I make no effort to hide my bias - see my signature). They make the process of evaluating, purchasing, receiving, learning, using, troubleshooting/repairing (if needed), and eventually upgrading (if desired) your back much less stressful than any experience I've seen from eBay.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 01:25:37 PM by Doug Peterson » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
figure1a
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2013, 12:28:22 PM »
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There was a good deal for IQ140 from this seller
http://myworld.ebay.com/steve5544/&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2754
Maybe you could check with him if it was still available.
One thing about Value added warranty - If you've purchased from an end user then you've forgone the support that a Value Added Dealer provides. You still have Warranty for repair and part replacement from Phase One, but not Dealer Support.
Is that Ebay seller Phase One dealer?
From what I've been told, the original dealer of a Value Added Warranty will continue to provide support for a used back regardless if the current owner bought it used.
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figure1a
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 12:30:02 PM »
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I suspect not, as the firmware is out of date. It's pretty rare (though not impossible) to find a modern/current-generation back.

Is the the firmware just a download and update? I've had Phase One backs before. Wouldn't that make it a "modern/current-generation back"?
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Pics2
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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2013, 12:52:41 PM »
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From what I've been told, the original dealer of a Value Added Warranty will continue to provide support for a used back regardless if the current owner bought it used.
That is not what I was told. I don't know, maybe each dealer has different policies.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2013, 01:29:24 PM »
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Is the the firmware just a download and update? I've had Phase One backs before. Wouldn't that make it a "modern/current-generation back"?

Yep, firmware is very easy to update. Any good dealer would do so before offering up for sale. Hence I suspect this is not a dealer. Also usually dealers would clearly label themselves on eBay as its a big sellin point to know you are buying from someone who knows the equipment inside and out.

My other point is that you wouldn't normally see a dealer sell a current generation back on eBay.

I had missed a few words in my sentence the first time I posted; I've gone back to correct that.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2013, 01:36:17 PM »
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From what I've been told, the original dealer of a Value Added Warranty will continue to provide support for a used back regardless if the current owner bought it used.

Warranty obligations yes, those carry with the serial number. Full service like troubleshooting, training, same day loaners, cleaning, testing, advice, and the myriad of questions we get from new owners: those are services we provide our customers. Now we are human beings, so if you call with a crises (as literally a dozen members of this forum across the world can attest) and you're a decent person (i.e. polite) I'll do my best to help you, but continued/extended customer support is only for customers.

To get the advantages of a value added dealer relationship you need a relationship with a value added dealer.
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DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
Phase One IQ250 FAQ
FredBGG
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« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2013, 02:05:03 PM »
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That is a pretty steep price for that back.

Always look at completed listing to get a more realistic snapshot of the used market.

Those backs have sold from 100% positive feedback sellers for as low as 12,000.

Check completed listings on eBay.

You also need to consider something.
Why is so much importance given to the value added dealer thing.
If this is needed is it not an indication that this type of gear/software combination is somewhat
problematic. Something to consider before dropping $20,000 on a 44x33 sized 40PM sensor.

Another thing to consider is that repair turnarounds can be long on this gear. If you need to
rely on this type of gear for daily work or limited opportunities to go
on location trips etc making an arrangement for replacement loaners is something to consider. Some dealer are also rental houses
so consider that to.

One other thing to consider is sensor size. 44x33 is significantly smaller than full frame. In many ways an older full frame sensor
will look better.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 02:11:01 PM by FredBGG » Logged
figure1a
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2013, 02:23:38 PM »
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Thanks for everyone's input.

As far as the question why is the value added warranty (4 year extended warranty) good for something like this, it's because digital backs are expensive! And because they are electronic they may fail for no other reason being they are electronic and sometimes electronics just fail no matter how well they are made. So, for me, if I'm going to drop 5 figures on a piece of equipment, I'll sleep better at night knowing it will be covered in the event of something going wrong. Can you imagine what it would cost to replace the sensor if it just overheated one day and fried beyond repair!

Also, from what I understand, should the back go in for repair, within 24 hours you would have a loaner back to use until your back is returned to you. So, not much down time.
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bcooter
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2013, 03:34:28 PM »
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Here we go.  "2013" the sequel of "Medium Format 2012".



I don't know about the 1q 140 but every camera of mine has gone into repairs or in for calibration except my phase one backs and they've been everywhere, in every type of condition on every type of project where a failure would be financially catastrophic.

Anything can happen but if you really want to be secure have a backup.

Nothing wrong with a new iQ and backing it up with a plus back.  That would be cost effective and just a matter of snapping on a back or a body and you keep working.

Also before you buy on line talk to a good dealer.  

I can give you two dozen instances where photographers have been burned on online buys, but a good dealer will be there for you.

If you buy used a good dealer will have check the back out before you buy. You never know what the camera went through unless you know the seller.

IMO

BC

« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 03:52:13 PM by bcooter » Logged
Paul2660
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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 03:49:01 PM »
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A few more thoughts,

On the value add, the ebay listings states, "all you do is call Phaseone", I have wanted to do just that a few times, and I have had two back both with Value add.  You are expected to go through your dealer, they will call Phaseone, and then Phaseone will shipout a similar or identical back and you send yours in to them.  I know of no Phaseone number to call, sure they are listed in NY and you are going to ship to Melville NY if you are in the U.S. but you will still have some trouble getting there without a dealer.  Phaseone backs in the U.S. NEW are only sold via an authorized dealer and even though a value add stays with the back so you can sell the back and include it, the trip wire is getting to Phase one.  This listing is being sold by a 14K feedback and I am pretty sure they are a not a dealer.  You will need to establish some form of dealer relationship for the service.  You might be able to open a service ticket on the Phaseone website like with software, but I am not sure on that.  Phaseone, has no tech support numbers for the user to call for either software or hardware, this expected to be handled with a dealer first, then the dealer will contact Phaseone if necessary.  For this product, a dealer is very important.

As far as cost, yes the whole prospect is expensive, but if you are going there, the value add is really a have to have.  You can expect about a 3 to 5 week turnaround on a normal workup (shipping to NY and then NY shipping to Denmark).  The cost of a repair without value add would be huge and if parts are needed, you will be looking at a big ticket.   The cost justification of MFD over 35mm has been beaten to death on this forum and others, only you can justify the cost, but if can, don't leave out the Value add warranty.  

As for this being a deal, I am not sure on that either, back in December Phase was selling a IQ140 kit as I recall, (Back, DF camera and 80mm lens) and the price as I remember was under 20K.  Doug or someone else closer to the dealer channel can correct me on that.  

The 140 has 1:3 crop factor and that will have a big effect on your shots if you prefer wide angle work.  The 140 will handle shifting from a tech camera very well since the color shifting issues are not anywhere as big an issue due to the pixel size in microns.

Good luck on your decision it's an excellent back.

Paul Caldwell

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Paul Caldwell
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2013, 05:46:37 PM »
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The ebay lister is also not 100% accurate when he states a loaner will be sent within 24 hours. This is almost always the case, but it is not guaranteed. Phase One does their best to provide a loaner within that time period and in the overwhelming majority of cases, succeeds.

Many, if not most manufacturers offer extended warranties on their products. It is not any reflection of the reliability of the product.

Extending a warranty is a pretty subjective choice - there are formulas to use for ROI purposes, but I've had many who buy the extra warranty for emotional reasons - they just want to feel more secure in the event. Otherwise, it is pretty cut and dried - you're gambling that the odds won't hit you. Repair turn around times for Phase One backs going to Denmark are an average of 10-14 days. So - you have to figure a 2 week rental in that event. We offer a 30% - 40% discounted rental repair rate to our customers who buy from us.

Obviously for mission critical work, on a daily basis, having a backup is essential. While that sounds like common sense, I would say that the majority of clients with medium format don't have a medium format backup (they're using 35mm DSLR or going without).

As some have pointed out - this listing is not a great deal. What isn't realized is that when you upgrade to an IQ140 (or other IQ) with a Value Add Warranty, the VA Warranty is reduced in price, usually by about $1,600 or so. A buyer is often better off finding a cheap older back and trading it toward a new unit with Value Add Warranty. That might be an acceptable eBay purchase (or we frequently have low cost units on our shelves we can sell at a discount to someone upgrading to a higher priced unit). eBay can be cheap, but a really good dealer, can also be creative.

You can buy from a dedicated partner who works closely with you and has your back, or you can buy from a virtual warehouse with few protections and no real benefit other than potentially saving some money. My recommendation is to find one of those partners that knows how to be creative to get you into something and will continue to work with you afterward.

As a footnote - I spent the past 2 days wrangling with a manufacturer for one of my clients to get a statement sent to their insurance adjuster on company letterhead for a discontinued product that was submerged under water for hours. I had to wade through admin and tech personnel - who were just doing their job - which is to make sure procedures and policies are followed. But I needed someone who could understand the bigger picture - the client didn't want even the possibility of using and trusting this drenched unit again and needed someone to understand this. It took 2 days, and included tracking down 2 company Presidents (1 on vacation). In the end, he got his letter, and now will order a new version of the closest current equivalent. Most dealers would have accepted the decline from the manufacturer at it's face and shrugged their shoulders that there was nothing they could do. With no dealer - he wouldn't have even had that potential.

Also, for accuracy sake -

There has not ever been a promotion or limited time price reduction on any IQ Series digital backs to date so far from Phase One. In December - still going on through end of January - there is a heck of a an ongoing promotion on P40+/P65+ units, new and refurbished:

https://www.captureintegration.com/pre-owned-phase-one-winter-promotions/



Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

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Paul2660
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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2013, 06:07:47 PM »
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Steve:   thanks for the correction on the promotions, I just don't follow them as much now.  I saw P40+ and changed it to 140.  

However, your stated Never a price promotion on IQ, which is not as I remember it.  December of 2011 there was a significant price reduction on the IQ160 that only was for the month of Dec.  I remember this as I was able to take advantage of it due to the yours and CI's help.

Paul Caldwell



« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 06:33:46 PM by Paul2660 » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2013, 06:25:38 PM »
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Steve:   thanks for the correction on the promotions, I just don't follow them as much now.  I saw P40+ and changed it to 140. 

However, your stated Never a price promotion on IQ, which is as I remember it.  December of 2011 there was a significant price reduction on the IQ160 that only was for the month of Dec.  I remember this as I was able to take advantage of it due to the yours and CI's help.

Paul Caldwell






Ah - you know, you could be right. There might have been a bundle deal or something. But Paul - that was like, a year agoGrin

I'm lucky if I can remember last month! 

You're doing better than me, my friend.



Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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studio347
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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2013, 05:40:30 PM »
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As a person who got used Phaseone backs from a dealer, I recommend.. to get the back from respected dealers. The dealers are doing very important part in this equipment. You can easily return it in case... and get much help for possible troubles and future upgrade. You may or may not pay the premium for the help since the dealers are doing a business, but it's a worthwhile...
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 05:42:25 PM by studio347 » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2013, 05:21:00 AM »
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Its also worth considering the PhaseOne promotions for digital back trade-ins, it might make sense if you have one or can get a high old MP one for cheap.
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