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Author Topic: How do you best use the new catalog functions in c1 Pro 7?  (Read 2461 times)
The View
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« on: January 13, 2013, 03:16:39 PM »
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I just upgraded from Capture One 5 to Capture One Pro 7, and cataloguing is new to me.

I have watched the tutorials and read the catalogue manual.

What I am unsure about are how to use those feature appropriately.


1. Is it better to create just one catalogue, or multiple ones?

In the tutorials more catalogues are created. If you perform a search, will all catalogues be searched, or just the one selected (or do you have a choice?)


2. What is the point of having groups, albums, etc? Wouldn't it be better to search by keyword? (I saw that attaching keywords to images is one of the metadata functions of CO7)

3. XMP sidecar files - yes or no?

I remember reading discussions about this in the past. What's the take on sidecar files now? Isn't it a good idea that the adjustments and metadata travel with the file should you move it?


I'm waiting with importing until I have cleared these questions - I'm doing a fresh start here and would like to set up everything in a way I'm not sorry about six months from now.
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jeanvalentin
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2013, 04:29:13 PM »
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This is how I currently use LR with catalogs. I tried to use it with C1 but it's not ready for prime time yet (in my opinion).

1. I create a catalog for each type of photography I do: weddings, portraits and personal. I then import each job in the said catalog, referencing the images at their location. I wouldn't import the images into the catalog since you can't currently have the adjustments saved to XMP done automatically. You have to do it for each individual file via the file menu.

2. I guess some might find it useful, but I don't use them. I use filters

3. See point 1

I reverted back to v6 since there were too many problems (crashes and bugs) regardless if I used sessions or catalogs (this is on Mac).
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joshepperson
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2013, 08:13:46 AM »
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For me I create based on genre's. So for my fashion work it has its own catalog while my more conceptual/fine art work gets its own catalog. This just help me mentally keep the two apart and provides easier management.

Touching on groups and albums, I think this is to appeal to LR users who are used to Collection (thats how I use it atleast). I enjoy using groups as it adds another layer of organization when it is very easy to become cluttered using a catalog.

I still am on the side of caution when using catalogs in C17, it is great for between 1-2000 images. After that I have seen bad performance issues and glitches, especially if your computer isn't fairly new or upgraded. For archival purposes it is alright, but if you are shooting a lot professionally I still recommend Sessions as it is still the most stable and straightforward method for tethering and day shoots.
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The View
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 02:01:30 PM »
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For me I create based on genre's. So for my fashion work it has its own catalog while my more conceptual/fine art work gets its own catalog. This just help me mentally keep the two apart and provides easier management.

Touching on groups and albums, I think this is to appeal to LR users who are used to Collection (thats how I use it atleast). I enjoy using groups as it adds another layer of organization when it is very easy to become cluttered using a catalog.

I still am on the side of caution when using catalogs in C17, it is great for between 1-2000 images. After that I have seen bad performance issues and glitches, especially if your computer isn't fairly new or upgraded. For archival purposes it is alright, but if you are shooting a lot professionally I still recommend Sessions as it is still the most stable and straightforward method for tethering and day shoots.

Would you say that I should leave the catalogue feature out for now, and just arrange my images in sessions?

So far, I always arranged my images in shoots - the naming would be done automatically in import by using the date, and I'd add a short description later.

I supposed this is what matches more the sessions feature of C1 7 Pro...
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joshepperson
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2013, 02:26:43 PM »
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I just don't think the stability of having a large catalog in C1P exists yet. My fashion catalog in LR is 60,000+ images and runs fairly smooth, I can't imagine it working as well if at all in Capture One.

I do a similar method, I have a main folder labeled by year. Then every shoot I do this year gets added as its own folder in the 2013 folder. I then link it within Lightroom and add it as a collection for easy access.

The Capture One equivalent would be to create a main folder, like by year, then create a session for each shoot within that. It's too bad cataloging isn't as robust as it is in Lightroom, but it has potential. I will say though if you do happen to experiment with catalogs in C17 make one where it stores the files outside of the catalog. I have seen multiple examples where clients would save images into the catalog, the catalog file would become huge as you add more and more RAW's to where it was 10GB or more, and then it would corrupt or no longer launch correctly. You would then have to go through and pull out each image and reorganize everything, it becomes a real pain if anything does ever happen.
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The View
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2013, 09:37:37 PM »
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The option to store images inside the catalogue is more for group projects.

I decided to go with the catalogue structure. I asked Phase One about the file size of the catalogue, and it was an acceptable size.

I totally see the necessity of a catalogue in C1Pro with full keywording and that it takes some time to develop it.

I just wonder if we'll see incremental updates in regard to that.
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 03:46:35 PM »
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The best way to use Catalogues is to learn how to ignore them. I think LR does a rather decent job on a limited number of images. Then it slows down.

I have just recently taken on LR for cataloging, and at 180K images it does show how it slows down. Even though the catalog is about 2GB, it is a bit slow to work with.
I am dealing with it for now. I run Quad-3.6Ghz/16GB ram with SSD's, and Win7-64bit. The catalogue size is taxing on LR. Can I throw more HW at it, sure. Will it do much good? I don't know exactly. Yes, able to work, but, you just feel this sense of "catchup" of  split seconds before it reacts. And doing that with the tool set it has, is a bit frustrating.

I have always advised against using a "All-in-One " solution. As we all know they may do the juggling act just fine for some, but there is threshold it reaches. Take for example an All-InOne printer. It will Fax just fine, and print a few sheets and scan some things just FINE...But try and scan something for substance. Try printing 50 or 100 sheets. There will be something that gives.  Can you wait for 100 pages on a low volume printer? How much of the ink will that print job take up? Can you accept a scanner at 1200dpi interpolated resolution with what dmax? Can you do with half duplex faxing?  If it does handle these...at the least it will be slow at some point, and cost you. I am getting at the edge of that point. I still have another 200K images I'm "supposed" to include in the 1 catalogue methodology! That will be about 400K images of my 20 years in image making. I do think LR is impressive, and does a lot of things well. But for a long time user to gain from the features it promises; mainly the organization of an all inclusive catalog system (it must do this as everything else it is blind to the catalog), you have to use 1 large catalog. Unless it finds a way in the future to separate itself from Developer and Dam/Cataloguer....It will crawl to a halt. But I'm sure Adobe is hoping the HW upgrades will stretch you over in this bottle neck....There is little chance at this due to the reaction speed from the catalogue instructions to the NAS and back to your screen.  If you know otherwise, I'm all ears.


For C1, I have lost hope on their methods of approaching files in the first place. They had it right up until they started to force Sessions.  Now its just an anoyance I work around as much as I can, but it leaves you the feeling of simply avoiding the software. This is rather the saddest thing for me, as I actual LOVE C1, and its abilities. It just uses a backwards approach to accessing or even creating files. Sad, but it is true, and the MAJORITY of how the users feel. But they have the reputation and plenty of new sheep to enroll into the method, until some realize it just simply isn't working for them.  The more you know about how your files are and how you like creating them, the more it frustrates a person.  I do wish they would do 3 things ..and it would solve all this.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 05:41:46 PM by Phil Indeblanc » Logged

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jeanvalentin
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 08:00:09 PM »
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...Sad, but it is true, and the MAJORITY of how the users feel...

According to David (from Phase), the majority are happy with the way it's working (when I complained about their approach). I think there is a confusion between coping with the status quo and being happy with it (on their part).
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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2013, 01:00:32 AM »
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If it is for new users that want to get into a new system and have no clue(for the time being they might be happy), or those shooters who normally hire a digital tech and never deal with the process... perhaps he is right. For individual professionals, or studios that that work with more than one camera system, those with large file systems, NAS drives,  those that manage their own folder structure.....I would say that he is very wrong.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2013, 10:33:30 AM »
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You can use your own folder structure with capture one in several ways.
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The View
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2013, 08:38:45 PM »
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With Capture One Pro 7 now also doing the cataloguing, where does this leave Media Pro?
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The View
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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2013, 07:23:21 PM »
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I just wonder if there is a way to avoid both the catalog and the sessions.

I tried to use the folder section, but Capture One Pro 7 does not see my external hard drives.



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Phil Indeblanc
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2013, 03:50:34 PM »
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You can use your own folder structure in several ways....as long as you let C1 dictate what folders to add in your structure.

Unfortunately that is not using my own folder structure.  It forces folders in my system, it is not MY folder structure.

This causes issues with a lot of users, as it has for years now.  For some it is perfectly tolerable, as people have changed the way they work to accommodate C1's inability to leave folders alone.
It is simply destructive of our "own folder structure". And to use C1 and adapt it to our own folder structure we have to make redundant exceptions, moving files, cleaning up after it, renaming things, etc.


Doug
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You can use your own folder structure with capture one in several ways.

You are usually a lot more informative than this reply :-)

Links to some videos would help some poor souls at least try and see if they can live with it.  Surely it isn't for me you mention this.  Capture University / 8 years plus user....I should know :-)
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