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Author Topic: Anyone Well Versed in "The Dam Book" Methods for Asset Management?  (Read 1477 times)
mattmikulla
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« on: January 17, 2013, 07:46:40 PM »
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I've been reading through The DAM Book, on dpBestFlow.org etc on how to safely archive my photos.

One think I can't understand is if you edit a DNG does that then become a derivative file? Or is it still an original?

What if you convert that DNG to black and white in Lightroom. Where does that go?

Any insight into this would be helpful. Maybe I missed something.
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Schewe
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2013, 10:03:03 PM »
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I think you need to keep reading to understand what's going on...

A raw image (including a DNG) adjusted in ACR/LR has it's "parameters" adjusted but those settings are merely metadata that can be reset. The original raw image data remains in the raw/DNG file, only the adjusted parameters change in the image preview and in any rendered image files made from the raw file. The original raw/DNG still maintains the original raw data.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2013, 10:54:43 PM »
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Hi,

You don't touch the original, just create a recipe for making it into a new image. What you see on your screen is a preview image of what the processed image will look like.

Once a JPEG or TIFF or whatever is needed LR will apply the recipe to original  and cook new file. The original is not touched.

It is very simple, really. Just think of dark room and negative film. You developed the negative film once and could make a lot of different copies.

Best regards
Erik


I've been reading through The DAM Book, on dpBestFlow.org etc on how to safely archive my photos.

One think I can't understand is if you edit a DNG does that then become a derivative file? Or is it still an original?

What if you convert that DNG to black and white in Lightroom. Where does that go?

Any insight into this would be helpful. Maybe I missed something.
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mattmikulla
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2013, 09:59:04 AM »
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I think I just have a hard time understanding the workflow when DNG is the primary file format and file I will be using. I won't be creating a PSD or TIF.

I understand that the original RAW data is in the file and can always be reverted to.

So it just seems strange to me that if I significantly or radically change a DNG that I don't create some kind of version like a xxxx-xxx-master-bw.dng.

How do DNG virtual copies fit into the system? Should I use or avoid them?
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Scott Hargis
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2013, 10:35:37 AM »
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One use for virtual copies would be for when you make a version of the master file (e.g. a B&W conversion, or a crop) that you want to keep long-term.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2013, 11:14:17 AM »
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I think I just have a hard time understanding the workflow when DNG is the primary file format and file I will be using. I won't be creating a PSD or TIF.
I understand that the original RAW data is in the file and can always be reverted to.
So it just seems strange to me that if I significantly or radically change a DNG that I don't create some kind of version like a xxxx-xxx-master-bw.dng.
How do DNG virtual copies fit into the system? Should I use or avoid them?

DNG is just a container, a high end TIFF if you will. It can hold raw data (in a non proprietary format), or rendered data. The later is a tad confusing because originally DNG was to hold raw data hence the name "Digital Negative". So just think of DNG as another raw format although the data inside the DNG doesn't have to be raw. When dealing with raw in the DNG, the raw itself isn't altered. Just as when you make a print in the darkroom, the negative isn't affected.

What you are doing is creating instructions about how you want to render the data TO a TIFF or JPEG or PSD from the raw. How should the raw be used to produce RGB pixels, in some color space, with some kind of color appearance? Going back to the darkroom, think of the raw being the negative and think about altering the controls on the enlarger to get a different looking print (the instructions).

With a Virtual Copy, you are kind of creating a copy of the DNG without having to save another raw (or DNG) to disk. Since the original raw data isn't touched, you are telling Lightroom, make a 2nd set of instructions, go to the raw data and show me another iteration of what I could end up with IF I render the raw and these instructions. One thing to keep in mind is the VC lives in the LR database. So you can have one raw document, DNG or proprietary raw and a dozen sets of instructions. You create instructions which are basically text files which take up a tiny amount of space.

If I end up with a VC that is my hero, I can if I so desire export this as another DNG. Now that iteration isn't living solely inside the LR database. It is a standalone document that has the raw data and those instructions, plus a lot of other useful components (DNG profile for example). Probably not necessary but for a belt and suspenders backup schema, another option.

At some point you may want a PSD or better IMHO, a TIFF. If you wanted to take it into another application like Photoshop or Graphic Converter etc. IF you plan to live totally in LR, even printing there, probably no need to be creating a PSD or TIFF. LR can do everything with the DNG: build a slideshow, a web gallery, make a print etc.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
mattmikulla
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 07:50:33 PM »
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Thanks @digitaldog and everyone else that has chimed in.

I'm understanding more and more. I also appreciate your traditional film darkroom references. I'm probably in the last generation of those that learned film. Before DSLRs were a reality.

I will state that I definitely export from Lightroom to Photoshop. For retouching or black and white conversion with tools like NIK are used.

But back to DNG.

My thought process seems to take me to the idea that derivative files are heros. Portfolio, prints etc. Why else would I version them right?

If I keep my DNGs that have been edited, slightly or significantly (bw), in LR within the same directory of originals... Do I rely on metadata and collections to reference my heros?




« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 07:58:57 PM by mattmikulla » Logged
Schewe
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 10:45:37 PM »
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If I keep my DNGs that have been edited, slightly or significantly (bw), in LR within the same directory of originals... Do I rely on metadata and collections to reference my heros?

You could...or you could simply use the file format as a way to distinguish the differences...it's pretty simple to filter on file type. You can also keep a smart collection based on file type to it would be real simply to find all your TIFF or PSD files regardless of where they may be.
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